The Hobbit - Chapter by Chapter Discussion

[Dillson]

A think that definately struck me was the contrasting behaviour of both the Mirkwood Elves and the High-Elves in Rivendell, and also of the elves in The Hobbit and the elves in The Lord of The Rings.  It's true that in Rivendell they knew what the dwarves were setting out to do, and they had Gandalf with that helped, and in Mirkwood they didn't have him, nor did they the elves there have any reason to believe that the dwarves were anymore than tresspassers.  Still, I think that the Mirkwood Elves could have been a bit more courteous towards the dwarves, considering they are the wisest of races in Middle-Earth, and the most gracious and forgiving.

[elbereth]

forgiving my eye

(sorry)

[Lessa]

I with you on that E the high elves are not forgiving by any means. Take Elrond's view of Men, it was coloured by Isildur's actions and so made him bitter to a whole race. Granted Isildur made a HUGE mistake but to tar all of men with the same brush is just a bit too vindictive. I think the higgh elves are just better at hiding their dark side than the Sindar elves.

Lessa

[Lady Arwen]

Perhaps because the high elves tend  to think that they are the only ones who hold perfection...and at the same time they have distanced themselves too much from the race of men to be able to fully understand and forgive.

[jbpichu]

we read the book in our L.A. 9 class, and we even watched the cartoon movie version of it. (it sucked). I liked the book betta, especially the part where they were at the war of the 5 armies. In the movie, it looked like little dots bouncing on each other.(actually, it was)

[Chokolate Thunda]

I know...it's not the best movie....loads of stuff was inaccurate....but it's ok, i think...(i know im crazy, lol!)

[elbereth]

helllooo.....

well I don't really know that much about the Sindarian elves...but I just couldn't make up my mind about the elves of Mirkwood....at first I thought that they where just being I dunno....aggressive...but then the more I read....I got the feeling that they were afraid...and then when I read Thranduil's question to the elves....

"Why did you and your folk three times try to attack my people at their merrymaking?" asked the King....

that I began to understand...

but at the same time...they didn't paint a very good picture of Thranduil did they....saying that he was greedy for treasure....
kind of puts a whole different spin on things doesn't it....

I was really disappointed with that aspect of the elves....

[Starzi]

I don't really understand that either... obviously in a place like Mirkwood the elves would have to be a bit on the cautious side but the treasure thing kind of undermines the very 'image' of elves in Middle Earth...

also make me wonder why Legolas had none of these traits in LotR...  

[elbereth]

well its always possible that he just didn't have the same outlook as his father....and could see the bigger picture over all....

you know how that is....but when you are ready a lot things you get the picture that elves are all about giving and nature and blah blah blah...and then you are reading the hobbit and boom you see that they are all about the treasure and in the sil they are all about the Silmaril's....

anyway back to topic...

[GG]

Is it possible that Elrond's more enlightened attitude toward non-elves comes from his own mortal ancestry (Earendil)?

[elbereth]

maybe...that would explain a lot...but then you have ppl like Gil-Galad who made the Allaince between men and elves and went against Sauron....

so at times there were good allainces between the two races....

[EG]

maybe during times of greed and scarcity the elves felt the need to possessive anything that would sustain their existence

maybe in time, and with the added need to trade, the elves relaxed more  became more their natural selves ??

not sure, only specualting... it just seems so odd for elves to be "greedy" and self-possessive

[Dillson]

The elves from Rivendell and Mirkwood may have differed because of the fact that the wood elves from Mirkwood would far more likely find less friendly characters in the woods, afterall there were spiders around them, and Dol Guldur was not so far away down south.  In Rivendell, they are far more protected by the ravine that they were in and the fact that it was hidden.  They were in relative safety in comparision to the elves in Mirkwood.

Or .. there is the argument that Middle-Earth is on the brink of destruction, the elves are likely to be a bit more accomadating to other free peoples when the agenda of the evil in the East is far more important.  In the time of Bilbo's adventure, the elves in Mirkwood were far more oblivious to the current situation.  Surely tresspassers would be more of a threat to them than far off rumours of evil.  In Rivendell, the visitors were not tresspassers.

[elbereth]

ok...we are so far off topic here it doesn't matter....

so.....

even though some elves were not greedy....
they were...remember what happened with the Silmarils....and Elronds own parents because of it......they could be just as petty and greedy and humans...thats what makes it so tragic in my eyes...especially for the Mirkwood elves....they had fallen under the curse of greed....and mistrust...which was part of the curse of Mandos...when they left Valinor....

they would always mistrust each other...

[EG]

which again brings up Starz question about Legolas.

He was portrayed as very generous and caring in nature, the Prince of Mirkwood!  Did the threat of Mordor change the nature of the Mirkwood elves

(isnt it odd the different images we are given on the Mirkwood elves in the Hobbit compared to LOTR!)

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