i think aragorn is so selfish!!!!

[emerranger]

 Viggo is not Aragorn and Aragorn is not Viggo! Gamgee You are so... Wise. It is not our fault what Viggo is Aragorn in cinema. Yes he is a good actor, but not Elessare. To my mind the Middle Earth has 2 sad love story- Lythien and Beren ; Aragorn and Arwen. And what about Aragorn - I don't think like the creator of this topic.
 Oh,Garg the orc, so many people thinking about Liv Tyler like about Arven, not "Very Irresistable"...mmm...Woman. it is no fair play isn't it?

[legy]

It really interests me how people can get so moved by made up stories.
I mean lotr is great but it's not exactly real is it?!
How can you turn around and say Aragorn was selfish to kill himself and leave Arwen on her own when it was infact Tolkien's plan to choose this particular fate for these characters.

Just my opinion.

[Anne]

Well that's the joy of a well written story - that it moves people to discuss it's plot twists and turns.  And was it Tolkien's original plan?  Anyone who has ever written will tell you that the characters take over and write themselves different stories to those the writer might have originally intended.  Maybe in Tolkien's first draft Aragorn somehow attains immortality - takes over the Ring and becomes the White Lord of Middle Earth and rules with Arwen forever?  But I think I prefer the version that eventually played out.  Even if the characters didn't live forever.

[Elenwe]

Who said it's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all! Sorry, went off on one there Aragorn, selfish! no never...they had a child together and so Arwen wasn't alone at all...that's how I would feel anyway.

Here's another angle on the debate... So what was Tolkien's view on life after death in terms of the story? would they have been re-united in heaven? *is very curious now*

[Lessa]

Aragorn, selfish! no never...they had a child together and so Arwen wasn't alone at all...that's how I would feel anyway.

I agree with you about this.

So what was Tolkien's view on life after death in terms of the story? would they have been re-united in heaven? *is very curious now*

As for this well I'm not entirely sure how it would work seeing as Arwen was an elf but gave it up to be mortal. The question is does she count with the elves or with Man when it comes to death.

Lessa

[Arwen]

There is an interesting line in the Fellowship of the Ring, where Aragorn is standing to the side of Cerin Amroth (where he and Arwen took their vows, and also where she eventually died) and it says: He came there never again as living man.
Ths suggests that, as Arwen died there, he was there to meet her.

[Athelas]

  As I recall from The Sil, after men die they don't go to the Halls of Mandos like elves do. Nobody knows, but they might just be totally gone from existence. So whether Arwen got the elvish treatment or the human treatment after she breathed her last, she likely never found Aragorn again. She (and Elrond) knew this, which made her choice to wed Aragorn all the more bittersweet.
  Here's a question to ponder: Elrond told Aragorn he couldn't have Arwen's hand in marriage until he was king. Given that Arwen was about 3000 years old, how many of Aragorn's ancestors were also smitten by her? And how many times had Elrond laid down the law : You don't get Arwen until you wear the crown!

[Anne]

Nah, I don't think Arwen worked her way through generations of would be kings.  Detracts too much from the love story idea if that were true.

But men must have some sort of afterlife.  How do you explain the oathbreakers otherwise?

[Vinyariel]

  As I recall from The Sil, after men die they don't go to the Halls of Mandos like elves do. Nobody knows, but they might just be totally gone from existence.

Not quite right, they go to the Halls of Mandos, but not together with the Elves and they don't stay there. Nobody knows where they go, except Mandos, so it is said. He knew but wasn't supposed to tell the other Valar. And there were exceptions during the ages. One of them was Beren, who was allowed to go back from the Halls with Luthien and live for a while. Who knows, if Aragorn after all his deeds didn't got the same gift? And who knows, if Arwen after her choice of a mortal life didn't went to the same place like Aragorn? Nobody knows and I like to keep the idea they have found each other, wherever that might have been.

[Theo]

  I get why someone would rather take their life than to be a burden to family and friends..  I get how someone would want to die before their faculties completely leave them..  Especially being a king!  Aragorn wasn't about to become so old and decrepit that he couldn't feed himself, or even control his bladder/ bowels!  He had honor and was revered by many..  He'd be too embarrassed to become so old that he couldn't care for himself..  So I totally get why he might have taken his own life..

  However: however expected it might have been, it was still a somewhat selfish thing to do..  Even for myself, who has come as close as one can to committing suicide without actually doing it, I think it's selfish..  Even if you don't want to burden your family; in most cases they'd be glad to take care of you if you couldn't care for yourself!

  It does pose the question of what Tolkien felt about mental illnesses (which is what causes most people to be suicidal) and if he had some friend or relative who may have struggled..

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