The Age of the Ring

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lyri
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« #30 : February 25, 2004, 07:48:04 PM »

I don't think there's any way to exactly determine Eldarion's age at the time, only that he had come into manhood and was apparently ready to take the kingship. The age of majority for the Numenoreans was like 25, and he was most likely well past that.
I don't know for certain if 90 was the average age for the 'Chieftains', because as far as I know the birth years for all of them are not given.  That may just be the Ency. of Arda (which I know gives that number) speculating. They are not always accurate.
If it actually says '90' anywhere, I don't recall it.

Quote
and yeah wasnt it said that when men dies they went out of the comprehandsion of even the valar themselves, even mandos (valar of death) did not understand.
They go to Mandos first, just as the elves do, but eventually leave the Circles of the World. It is the fate of the elves that Eru did not (according to the Sil) reveal to the Valar, but the Valar claim that Men will join in the Second Music.

As for Men 'shaping their lives', I think he meant while still living, not in the afterlife.

Tolkien had some clearer ideas about what happens to men earlier on - much more a Heaven-Purgatory-Hell scenario. (as in BOLT)
He eventually left it much more uncertain, and probably on purpose. His personal beliefs would of course cause him to have certain ideas about the 'final fate of Men', but his dislike for blatant allegory may have influenced him to sidestep the issue in his writings. :D
Still, there are some interesting passages in the Sil (the Second Music) and in Morgoth's Ring,  like this one:

" Men will also fade' if it proves to be the plan that things shall still go on, when they have completed their function. But even the Elves had the notion that this would not be so: that the end of Men would somehow be bound up with the end of history, or as they called it 'Arda Marred' and the achievement of 'Arda Healed.' (JRRT, Morgoth's Ring)

"It's not enough to rage against the lie...you've got to replace it with the truth." (Bono; U2)[/i]
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« #31 : March 02, 2004, 02:55:17 PM »

"Take counsel with yourself, beloved, and ask you would indeed have me wait until I wither and fall from my high seat unmanned and witless. Nay, lady, I am the last of the Numenoreans and the latest king of the Elder Days; and to me has been given only a span thrice that of Men of Middle earth, but also the grace to go at my will, and now I give back the gift. Now, therefore, I will sleep." (ROTK, Tale of Aragorn and Arwen)

that is really sweet and upsetting im going to go in a corner and cry know  :'(

:P
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« #32 : March 02, 2004, 08:05:52 PM »

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that is really sweet and upsetting im going to go in a corner and cry know  

oh my god...get a grip!!!!!!!!
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« #33 : March 02, 2004, 08:29:44 PM »

you really arent helping anything.  why dont you come back when you learn how to post properly


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« #34 : March 02, 2004, 10:21:44 PM »

actually i do think that tuffers has a point there i was a bit over dramatic about the whole thing  :P :-X

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« #35 : March 02, 2004, 10:44:46 PM »

No, there's no harm in getting upset over something mrsbloom! Tuffers obviously doesnt appreciate the brilliant writing! Dont worry about it!

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« #36 : March 11, 2004, 03:30:16 AM »

the simarillion is an awesome book, but it is a tad confusing
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« #37 : March 14, 2004, 07:11:02 PM »

The Silmarillion is a really amazing book, its a lot of stories, compiled together, in a way. I love it. The tale about Melkor and Ungoliant was my favourite. It also gives you an idea, on what it was like in the First age.

I have discovered a story on the web, that is told from Melkor, and Saurons point of view... I think you will of had to read the sil to understand it a bit more though, but I found it really good.

If you got adobe reader, have a look. If not, install it, its worth the wait, honest!
 I printed it off, so i could keep it.

Heres the link:

www.xeper.org/maquino/nm/Morlindale.pdf


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« #38 : March 16, 2004, 09:27:11 PM »

yeh sil rules!!
my fav aprt is wen it tells you about how melkor made sauron etc
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« #39 : March 23, 2004, 07:03:24 AM »

more info about Numenor please
come on people,i`m new here
« : March 23, 2004, 07:06:36 AM Agrirelian »
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« #40 : June 15, 2004, 06:10:53 AM »





there is a general map of numenor, from http://www.glyphweb.com/arda, and here is the info. from it:

The island kingdom of the Dúnedain, raised from the sea by the Valar as a gift and reward to the Men who had remained faithful through the dark years of the First Age. The Edain who had dwelt in Beleriand were led to the island in II 32 by Elros the Half-elven, who unlike his brother Elrond had chosen to be counted among Men rather than Elves.

Elros became the first King of Númenor, taking the name Tar-Minyatur. Under his rule, and the rule of his descendants, the Númenóreans rose to become the most powerful nation of Men in that or any other age. Their mighty ships returned to Middle-earth in II 600, and there they founded havens and cities.

For the early part of their history, the Númenóreans were closely allied with the Elves of Tol Eressëa, which lay close to their western shores. The Elves visited them often, and taught them much, but the Númenóreans themselves were forbidden to sail westwards, because the Valar feared they would become envious of the Undying Lands they and the Elves inhabited. As their greatness and power grew, the Númenóreans began to turn against the Ban of the Valar, and at last Ar-Adûnakhôr, who became King in II 2899 turned openly against it, though he did not dare defy it.

The last King of Númenor was Ar-Pharazôn the Golden, who usurped the throne of the rightful queen Míriel in II 3255. He took his armies to Middle-earth to make war upon Sauron, and so great had the Númenóreans become that Sauron's forces deserted him. Seeing an opportunity to destroy his enemy, Sauron sued for peace and returned with the King to Númenor. He gradually gained Ar-Pharazôn's trust, and persuaded him to sail openly against the Valar. This he did in II 3319, but as he set foot on the forbidden shores of Aman, the Land of Gift was taken away and swallowed beneath the waves forever.

Some few survived the Downfall; Elendil, his sons and his followers had prepared themselves for the disaster and taken ship, and were driven back across the seas to Middle-earth. There they founded the famous realms of Arnor and Gondor, though these were but a dim reflection of the glory of Númenor at its height.

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