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: Tolkien and Progress  ( 7250 )
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« : July 04, 2007, 02:49:00 PM »

When I read Tolkien's works, the Hobbit in particular, I get the strong feeling that Tolkien is against technical and scientific development. Indeed elves, dwarves, and men do not seem to have progressed or advanced in this way over the period of thousands of years. In one of his letters he call airplanes the real villain of war and reflects doubt whether people could be trusted such dangerous things. I see his point about this, however  progress is unavoidable and obviously brings certain benefit.
Do you share Tolkien's opinion on this point?

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« #1 : July 23, 2007, 01:24:18 PM »

I think there is a lot to be said for the simpler less complicated life.

Yes, I do believe that Tolkien (like many, many of us)  hankered after a simpler life without all the trappings of progress.  I think if you were to look at different writers (TS Elliot for example) they are all worried about progress and what it means and quite frankly in view of the world and how it is going I cannot say I blame them. 

As for the benefits, well yes they do seem obvious but I would say this, the materialistic benefits become meaningless the more you have of them the less they mean.  Furthermore most of the benefits are gained by the exploitation of others in some way or another so personally, I would prefer a more simple less materialistic life style.

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« #2 : July 29, 2007, 09:08:54 PM »

It seems to me that now progress is going more or less in a 'natural' direction, I mean reducing pollution and exploitation of natural resourses. At least there's understanding (not everywhere though) that progress can bring harm also.
As for materialistic benefits I think their main meaning and purpose is to make life easier and less burdensome, they don't have any special meaning.

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« #3 : July 30, 2007, 08:57:44 PM »


As for materialistic benefits I think their main meaning and purpose is to make life easier and less burdensome, they don't have any special meaning.

If that is the case, how come so many people who manage to achieve what they want are so often very unhappy?  They seem to lose momentum in life and struggle to find a purpose for doing things. Isnt this what happens when life becomes 'too'  easy?  Furthermore, what I would like to know is when does a person every have 'enough'?  It seems to me that the more people have, the more they want.  Greed.  Humans are just so greedy! 

When you talk about things going more or less in a 'natural' direction too, depends on where you look doesnt it?  There's so much talk about individuals reducing their 'carbon footprint' and recycling and what have you, but truly no matter how much effort individuals put in it is like a drop in the ocean when you consider that governments run highly polluting factories and the like.  They are so keen to tell the public what to do but the truth of the matter is it is all futile unless governments also take a step in the right direction, which they are not really prepared to do are they? 

I think that people like Tolkien and others of his generation were really concerned about the mass production of goods and the throw away society that was beginning to develop.  Let's face it, they were right to be concerned weren't they?  Look at the state of society today.  It is on a slippery slope to.....

omg I have depressed myself now!   :[

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« #4 : August 01, 2007, 06:17:47 PM »

If that is the case, how come so many people who manage to achieve what they want are so often very unhappy?  They seem to lose momentum in life and struggle to find a purpose for doing things. Isnt this what happens when life becomes 'too'  easy?  Furthermore, what I would like to know is when does a person every have 'enough'?  It seems to me that the more people have, the more they want.  Greed.  Humans are just so greedy! 

I think they're unhappy not because of greed only. Greed is just a part of it. It's education and upbringing that matters; if a person is brought up to be 'good',  greed or limitless need of things is not likely to cloud his mind. And I think if life becomes 'too' easy, which means doing less routine, there'll be more time for creative things and more pleasurable things in general.
And I don't suppose simpler life excludes greed.

When you talk about things going more or less in a 'natural' direction too, depends on where you look doesnt it?  There's so much talk about individuals reducing their 'carbon footprint' and recycling and what have you, but truly no matter how much effort individuals put in it is like a drop in the ocean when you consider that governments run highly polluting factories and the like.  They are so keen to tell the public what to do but the truth of the matter is it is all futile unless governments also take a step in the right direction, which they are not really prepared to do are they? 

Yeah, unfortunately it's too true what you describe. However some countries, e.g. Germany, does move in that direction which is encouraging. But doesn't it all depend on us, our choice(at least in civilized countries)? There're ways of obtaining clean energy and explorative works are carried out in this field, doesn't they? There's that Kyoto protocol, though it's not effective enough. Yet certain steps are taken in the right direction in the several past decades, albeit small.

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« #5 : November 09, 2011, 03:06:00 AM »

 I think Tolkien was leery and afraid of what industrialization might bring about..  In some ways he did have right to be afraid, but what about modern medicine?  If we had not progressed so much in medicine then life would still be rather frightful and precarious..  I realize, things happen, but now we can rely on medicine to help our ailments and illnesses..

  But I can't say that industrialization has been all good..  Factories polluting the air, mass production leading to all kinds of preservatives in foods, mass grown fruits and vegetables are smothered in pesticides..  Though I'm not sure local farmers could meet the needs of our ever growing society and therefore we become more and more dependent on mass grown/ mass produced foods and products..

  Then again, the state of personal cleanliness and hygiene has improved much over the years... Again, industrialization isn't all bad..  Not all good either though..  It's a delicate balancing act, indeed..

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