Peredhil

[Taurendil]

I wonder what is the fate of peredhil, i.e. half-elven, are they counted amongst elves or men? Elrond and Elros were given a choice. But what about others for example Eldarion, who is a son of Arwen and Aragorn  Was he allowed to the Undying lands?

[EG]

all the half elven were given a choice and Eldarion would have been too

I dont know what his decision was... but he would have had it

[Beleriel]

Ummm how?  I thought the last ship departed and therefore he wouldnt be able to go would he? 

[EG]

good point! hadnt thought of that.

Im pretty certain he was given the choice tho!, but what I did wonder, is how long they are deemed to be half elven. ?  I mean, Elrond was half man half elf.  Arwen was 3/4 elf, Eldarion would have been 62% man If he married a "human" their siblings would have been 80% man...

how much is "half elven"

[Lessa]

Elros chose to ne mortal and all his line were counted with men. Therefore once Arwen chose to be mortal the same would happend to her children and their offspring. Only the children of those counted with elves have the choice.

Lessa

[Mithrandir]

Indeed, Arwen chose to be mortal, and Aragorn was mortal, therefore, Eldarion wouldn't've had a choice in the matter: he was mortal.

More interesting that that is the fact that Eldarion, a mortal man, would've technically been the Lord of both Lothlórien and Rivendell...

[Taurendil]

Ummm how?  I thought the last ship departed and therefore he wouldnt be able to go would he? 

What last ship? I thought there still were many elves left after the war of the ring in Middle-earth. I mean the elves of Mirkwood, who 'remained untroubled for many years'.

[EG]

Elros chose to ne mortal and all his line were counted with men. Therefore once Arwen chose to be mortal the same would happend to her children and their offspring. Only the children of those counted with elves have the choice.

Lessa

hee hee!  thanks for putting me straight again Lessa!

[Taurendil]

Only the children of those counted with elves have the choice.

But when an elf marries human he(she) automatically becomes mortal, and not counts among elves. I think that the choice was given only to Elrond and Elros, since their parents had a 'specific' fate.

It's strange that Dior son of Beren and Luthien, Thingol's Heir, was as far as I understand an elf, since his parents had become mortal.  

[Hyllyn]

Ummm how?  I thought the last ship departed and therefore he wouldnt be able to go would he? 

What last ship? I thought there still were many elves left after the war of the ring in Middle-earth. I mean the elves of Mirkwood, who 'remained untroubled for many years'.

They never went to Valinor tho, they weren't called Avari for nothing.

Apart from (and on top of) all the other valid arguments. Redundant question regarding Eldarion but well it is always one worth answering or discussing about.

[Taurendil]

Ummm how?  I thought the last ship departed and therefore he wouldnt be able to go would he? 

What last ship? I thought there still were many elves left after the war of the ring in Middle-earth. I mean the elves of Mirkwood, who 'remained untroubled for many years'.

They never went to Valinor tho, they weren't called Avari for nothing.

No it doesn't concern Avari, but the Silvan and the elves of Sindarin descent.

[Hyllyn]

Ummm how?  I thought the last ship departed and therefore he wouldnt be able to go would he? 

What last ship? I thought there still were many elves left after the war of the ring in Middle-earth. I mean the elves of Mirkwood, who 'remained untroubled for many years'.

They never went to Valinor tho, they weren't called Avari for nothing.

No it doesn't concern Avari, but the Silvan and the elves of Sindarin descent.

Both of whom are Avari (and their descendants). If I remember correctly only Thingol of all Sindar was considered different due to the fact that the light of the two trees was in Melian, another exception was Celeborn but because of Galadriel.

Apart from that with the coming of the 4th age I don't think there was more traffic between Valinor and anywhere else 

[Mithrandir]

Both of whom are Avari (and their descendants). If I remember correctly only Thingol of all Sindar was considered different due to the fact that the light of the two trees was in Melian, another exception was Celeborn but because of Galadriel.

You're right but for the wrong reason. Thingol travelled to Valinor himself as one of the three leaders/ambassadors of the three groups of elves along with Finwe and Ingwe. He went back to Middle-earth to take his people to Valinor but was waylaid by Melian.

[Taurendil]

Avari are not those elves who didn't see the light of the trees only, they are those who refused the Great Journey from Cuivienen. The silvan and the sindar are eldar, i.d. elves of the Three Kindreds, and in our case Teleri. Legolas, for example, is one of them and he sailed into the West.

[Hyllyn]

Both of whom are Avari (and their descendants). If I remember correctly only Thingol of all Sindar was considered different due to the fact that the light of the two trees was in Melian, another exception was Celeborn but because of Galadriel.

You're right but for the wrong reason. Thingol travelled to Valinor himself as one of the three leaders/ambassadors of the three groups of elves along with Finwe and Ingwe. He went back to Middle-earth to take his people to Valinor but was waylaid by Melian.

 I have found that passage on page 52 and I stand corrected. Elwe did indeed make it there, but not his people and by that time they were all considered Teleri not Sindar.

Avari are not those elves who didn't see the light of the trees only, they are those who refused the Great Journey from Cuivienen. The silvan and the sindar are eldar, i.d. elves of the Three Kindreds, and in our case Teleri. Legolas, for example, is one of them and he sailed into the West.

You are a Moriquendi if you didn't see the light of the two trees, and to be able to give them a miss you had to be an Avari, so both are interrelated. I'm sure there must have been traffic between Valinor and M.E in between at times but if you remember correctly that passage wasn't open to all.

The silvan and sindar to me are watered down Eldar because their link with the Eldar is given by their kinship with the Teleri (even if on page 53 of the Silmarillion it is stated otherwise).

Let's put it simple to me the only kins able to travel to Valinor were the Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri.

Aa for Legolas my memory escapes me but does it ever say Gimli and himself went to Valinor? or just sailed into the sea and not much more.
 
 I suppose that after all it is a brain tickling topic but I still stick with the kins who are able and the ones who are unable/didn't bother at any stage to go to the West.

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