Political Correctness Gone Overboard!!!

[EG]

I agree

can we get this discussion on more of a level please.  Try to talk about the apparant banning of Christmas, without getting down to slagging of different people's religions

thanks

[Hyllyn]

I'm honestly disgusted at what I'm reading here. It's sad to know that in an apparent liberal society we've people with these sort of views. I'd expect it in the BNP or National Front manifesto, honestly.

Disgusting.

And no, it isnt racism, it's sectarianism.

 Liberal it is Phil, and just as your opinion is valid, so is anyone else's.

 Try and give me one reason to not consider Religions as the source of all tragedies?

 

 You cannot go down to any level (or up) because what it is down to is to what can be offensive to people of different credos.

 Let's face it , if it was Jews blowing themselves up they would be trying to appease Jews not Muslims, and the same with Buddhists, Christians, Santeros, etc

 The inability to face up to the nature of the problem is what ends up extending the permanence of the issue in a stage of non solution.

 It's as simple as that.

 And what's wrong with saying it anyway? Colour of skin does not make anyone become a martyr, beliefs do.

 

[angleseyboi]

my views are my own (sian and sharon shud know them pretty well), but i am a slightly grown up gayer version of stewie from family guy

THE WORLD IS MINE!!! MINE!!!!![/b]

[Icy]

I'm honestly disgusted at what I'm reading here. It's sad to know that in an apparent liberal society we've people with these sort of views. I'd expect it in the BNP or National Front manifesto, honestly.

Disgusting.

And no, it isnt racism, it's sectarianism.

 Liberal it is Phil, and just as your opinion is valid, so is anyone else's.

 Try and give me one reason to not consider Religions as the source of all tragedies?

 

 You cannot go down to any level (or up) because what it is down to is to what can be offensive to people of different credos.

 Let's face it , if it was Jews blowing themselves up they would be trying to appease Jews not Muslims, and the same with Buddhists, Christians, Santeros, etc

 The inability to face up to the nature of the problem is what ends up extending the permanence of the issue in a stage of non solution.

 It's as simple as that.

 And what's wrong with saying it anyway? Colour of skin does not make anyone become a martyr, beliefs do.

 

I totally agree with you Nil.

Our opinions are ours.  We listen to yours, so listen to ours.  You don't have to agree, but respect it.

How is it disgutsing to have an opinion Phil? 

I could be offened by Christianity in some respects. 

Being Wiccan, which is a Pagan-based Religion, I could get offened by how the Christian's celebrate Halloween and dress up as stereotyped witches.  I could get offended by how they claim Satan is an evil God, when they took the God from the Pagan religion, which is good.  I could get offended by the way you see crosses and such emlazoned (sp?) on buildings, and cars, etc, when if I wear my Pentagram, I somehow get funny looks and I'm considered 'scary' and I worship the 'devil'.

Do I want these things banned?  No.  I live with them, and I realise that this is how these people live.  They enjoy dressing up as witches at Halloween, which is not even a Christian holiday.  I accept that Satan has been morphed from a good God into the Lord of all Evil.  I live with the fact I have to be more cautious with the symbols of my religion when the Christians don't have to be.

I think everyone has a right to say what they think, against anything, even peoples religions.  What I have said in this topic is my opinion, and I stand by it.

[Jim]

Grrr...this politically correct world is so Stupid!  It really gets on my nerves living in such a restricted place.

Not even say racist jokes?  I'm sure the OTHER people living in this country, such as Muslims and whatever, make plenty about us, but they won't get 'told off'.

And I'm not Christian, far from it, I'm Wiccan, so I do celebrate Yule, but not Christmas Day....but banning Christmas because it might offend someone?

If they're so offended by OUR traditions, they can bloody well go back to their own country!

Gah, you live in Britain, you live LIKE a Briton...that should be new law 

Send them back to their own country? What country is that? Many muslims are born in Britain and own a British citizenship, and what about those white muslims, where will you send them too, antartica?

I can't find any links on banning christmas, please give me some.

You can say Jihad, but you cannot say Crusade (when Jihad is the same s-h-i-t-e a holy war)

You cannot refer to them as anything but muslim but they can refer to you as infidels (there's a denigrative word for it which they use in their circles)

You can call an Australian and Aussie without them getting upset, a New Zealander and Kiwi without them being offended, but you can't call a Pakistani a Paki.

Yes I agree that when used with an abusive tone it's not accetable, but what the hell? I come from Venezuela, and I'm a frigging Vennie, do I get upset?

It shouldn't amaze me anymore, after all I know this world will go wrong, and this country is heading there faster than most.

First of all, British muslims are growing, and many are white. You can't say Jihad without getting ya head kicked in, the Crusades where over 800 years ago. The catholic church and protestant churches have a good time calling people infidels, blasphemers and everything under the sun, the media just doesn't make a fus about it.

Paki is used as a degratory term, Aussie isn't.

Exactly.  I totally agree.  I can't see how these people who live here, who are not from here originally, get to set our standards.  They seem to make the rules here 

The British had a good time setting standards across half the world with their British empire. These people for the most part pay their taxes to the British government, any that don't, well, is the same as a white briton not paying their taxes.

In saying that, I read a headline of the Daily Star (which in itself, questions the legitamacy of the story) that Piggy Banks were going to be banned because it's offensive to Muslims, which is pathetic.**

That won't happen. Honestly, who the f*ck uses a piggy bank after 5 years old in the first place. I certainly don't.

Who cares if its discrimination?  They (whoever they are :|) want to ban Christmas...why can't I want to ban Headscarves? 

Because your not Christian, therefore Christmas shouldn't matter to you.

totally agree with you Nil.

Our opinions are ours.  We listen to yours, so listen to ours.  You don't have to agree, but respect it.

the national front don't like jews or muslims, irish, blacks, and people from other countries in general, are their veiws respected? "well thats your opinion and your entitled to it" isn't a valid arguement.

Being Wiccan, which is a Pagan-based Religion, I could get offened by how the Christian's celebrate Halloween and dress up as stereotyped witches.  I could get offended by how they claim Satan is an evil God, when they took the God from the Pagan religion, which is good.  I could get offended by the way you see crosses and such emlazoned (sp?) on buildings, and cars, etc, when if I wear my Pentagram, I somehow get funny looks and I'm considered 'scary' and I worship the 'devil'.

Do I want these things banned?  No.  I live with them, and I realise that this is how these people live.  They enjoy dressing up as witches at Halloween, which is not even a Christian holiday.  I accept that Satan has been morphed from a good God into the Lord of all Evil.  I live with the fact I have to be more cautious with the symbols of my religion when the Christians don't have to be.

right, and lets be honest here. Do you think the government will actually plan to ban christmas, get it through the commons, get it through the lords and impliment it, in a majorly christian white society?.

[Icy]

Did I say they would ban it?  NO!

Jeez, I'm just trying to validate my opinion, which I did well I think.  Don't try and turn it round on me.  This isn't about whether they will ban Christmas or not, its our thoughts on it in General.

I know I'm not Christian, and Christmas doesn't matter to me anymore.  But I don't agree with a banning of it. 

And when I say to send people back to their own country...why not?  Even if they were born here, they should live like us.

How can anyone come here, and try and change our way of life?  Why should we bend to what they want?  They should abide by our rules, being guests in our country. 

I dunno, maybe I just love my country too much to see it get ruined by too many people, many of which don't even belong here.  Many of which want to ban everything under the sun here.

It makes me sick 

[Phil]

How can anyone come here, and try and change our way of life?  Why should we bend to what they want?  They should abide by our rules, being guests in our country.

Did I miss something? Who's trying to change peoples way of life?

And they're not guests, shut up. They're tax-paying citizens, just like you and me. Wise up.

[Icy]

:|

Banning Christmas is the topic...remember? 

[Phil]

How the HELL is christmas going to be banned? Don't be stupid.

As Jim said, to have such a motion, it needs to go thru parliament. Now, whos gonna vote for a ban on Xmas? You might say Muslims, but I dont think a whole 12 votes of ethnic minoritys out of 644 white MP's will make a difference now would it?

[Icy]

I didn't SAY it was going to get banned!  SOMEONE obviously wants it banned, I'm just saying how stupid it is!!

JESUS!!

[Icy]

Hehe, sorry, just saw the Irony in me using the term 'Jesus' 

[Jim]

Did I say they would ban it?  NO!

Jeez, I'm just trying to validate my opinion, which I did well I think.  Don't try and turn it round on me.  This isn't about whether they will ban Christmas or not, its our thoughts on it in General.

I know I'm not Christian, and Christmas doesn't matter to me anymore.  But I don't agree with a banning of it. 

And when I say to send people back to their own country...why not?  Even if they were born here, they should live like us.

How can anyone come here, and try and change our way of life?  Why should we bend to what they want?  They should abide by our rules, being guests in our country. 

I dunno, maybe I just love my country too much to see it get ruined by too many people, many of which don't even belong here.  Many of which want to ban everything under the sun here.

It makes me sick 

If you didn't say they would ban it, then why are you complaining? It shouldn't make a difference to the lives of anyone who feel "sickened" by this. Your thoughts and my thoughts ultimately don't matter on it, you can't validate an arguement based on secterianism. You can't just stand up and say "sent them back to their own country". Many live and grew up in Britain like you, only they aren't white and practise a different faith as part of the three major world religions. They shouldn't abide by your rules, they're as British as anyone and as such have a right to voice what they think as British Citizens in this joke of a democratic country/union. Who don't belong in Britain? I'm not British but I'm governed by them, should I be sent down to the South of Ireland?

[Hyllyn]

Grrr...this politically correct world is so Stupid!  It really gets on my nerves living in such a restricted place.

Not even say racist jokes?  I'm sure the OTHER people living in this country, such as Muslims and whatever, make plenty about us, but they won't get 'told off'.

And I'm not Christian, far from it, I'm Wiccan, so I do celebrate Yule, but not Christmas Day....but banning Christmas because it might offend someone?

If they're so offended by OUR traditions, they can bloody well go back to their own country!

Gah, you live in Britain, you live LIKE a Briton...that should be new law 

Send them back to their own country? What country is that? Many muslims are born in Britain and own a British citizenship, and what about those white muslims, where will you send them too, antartica?

 Many are born in Britain indeed, however figures from the Home Office show that more than 60% of Muslim families currently set up here consist of marriages featuring two cousins or close relations. Sending anyone, anywhere is a different issue, it certainly becomes relevant when acts of extreme nature take place.  During the riots in France the government considered deporting to muslim countries all muslim immigrants who were involved in the riots, does it sound fair? it does to me. I certainly would take you personally out of my house if you were insulting my hospitality no matter how bad it be (in reference to France's failed politics of integration).

 Of course the wishy washers liberal demo-s-h-i-t-e-s kicked a fuss there but isn't that all they do?
 
 Also I'm sure that on the issue of repatriation/deportation some of these muslims consider Muslim countries their second homes, it shouldn't be such an issue with living in one of them after all.

 

You can say Jihad, but you cannot say Crusade (when Jihad is the same s-h-i-t-e a holy war)

You cannot refer to them as anything but muslim but they can refer to you as infidels (there's a denigrative word for it which they use in their circles)

You can call an Australian and Aussie without them getting upset, a New Zealander and Kiwi without them being offended, but you can't call a Pakistani a Paki.

Yes I agree that when used with an abusive tone it's not accetable, but what the hell? I come from Venezuela, and I'm a frigging Vennie, do I get upset?

It shouldn't amaze me anymore, after all I know this world will go wrong, and this country is heading there faster than most.

First of all, British muslims are growing, and many are white. You can't say Jihad without getting ya head kicked in, the Crusades where over 800 years ago. The catholic church and protestant churches have a good time calling people infidels, blasphemers and everything under the sun, the media just doesn't make a fus about it.

Paki is used as a degratory term, Aussie isn't.

 Jihad was there 800 years ago matey, Jihad has always been there as a term to call upon when you want to turn something crude into something sacred as it's human nature.  The Turkish killed 1.8 million Armenians in 1915 under a Jihad, does that make it more holy or not?  At least the E.U has made it a pre requisition for Turkey to accept the Genocide stigma as part of pre entry talks. The refuse to and that just delays things, but I'm all for Turkey not joining the E.U.

 Churchill used Mustard gas on the Kurdish few years later and killed a third of their population, problem is he forgot to call it a crusade, although he did say they were an incivilized bunch of savages who need to be controlled by all means necessary. What they also forgot to add to that is that Churchill gave the Turkish the lands he had promised to the Kurdish just as they messed up with giving land to Palestina next to Israel. As a consequence any skirmish/battle/massacre is called by muslim leaders a Jihad, and as it's commented in more intimate circles what is the purpose of it? to add more lands and people for the glory of Allah (so yes you are in the plans of becoming the Islamic Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland providing that Jim and Phil agree)

 There are many issues you can easily overlook and it's all common place to most people who do not get properly informed, for example, many Muslim boast of how they refused to convert Spanish people to Islam when they ruled part of the Iberian peninsulae and how the Catholic king and queen (Ferdinand and Elizabeth) made them convert or go to Africa. However these are supposedly well informed people but they forget to mention that they forced Armenians to convert or else they would be sent to the desert to die or simply hung and quartered and put on display for all other people of different faiths to have an idea of what awaited them should they not want to embrace Allah.

 So calling it Holy war, does not make it more correct, the difference between them and Christians (of any sort) is that they haven't undergone the campaign of discredit and of years of documentation of the abuse of religion, so in a way back there it's still the dark ages in that respect. If they were slightly more liberal all this campaign would take place, and you would see women not wearing bin bags over themselves because their men are too scared to show off their property.

 As I said tho, by all means if you want to be slaves then be my guest, religions are the right choice for that, just don't try and put it across as correct or fair because I might not be able to do something about it right now, but at least I will turn a people a day from ignorance and then who knows.

Exactly.  I totally agree.  I can't see how these people who live here, who are not from here originally, get to set our standards.  They seem to make the rules here 

The British had a good time setting standards across half the world with their British empire. These people for the most part pay their taxes to the British government, any that don't, well, is the same as a white briton not paying their taxes.

totally agree with you Nil.

Our opinions are ours.  We listen to yours, so listen to ours.  You don't have to agree, but respect it.

the national front don't like jews or muslims, irish, blacks, and people from other countries in general, are their veiws respected? "well thats your opinion and your entitled to it" isn't a valid arguement.

 See the previous comment, after all nobody is saying go and fetch them torture them, and hang them, cut them into tiny pieces and display them so that all of them know what awaits them if they carry on being obnoxious. However if you happen to visit a muslim country you are at risk of being treated as an intruder and liable to be considered for abuse from all the community.

 The main difference between Muslims in the west and in muslim countries is that these migrant muslims are not considered wholesome muslims back there because they have embraced us 
 
 However they still practice things like honour killings which tell me of considering themselves to be above the law, and these are non fundamentalist radicals.

Being Wiccan, which is a Pagan-based Religion, I could get offened by how the Christian's celebrate Halloween and dress up as stereotyped witches.  I could get offended by how they claim Satan is an evil God, when they took the God from the Pagan religion, which is good.  I could get offended by the way you see crosses and such emlazoned (sp?) on buildings, and cars, etc, when if I wear my Pentagram, I somehow get funny looks and I'm considered 'scary' and I worship the 'devil'.

Do I want these things banned?  No.  I live with them, and I realise that this is how these people live.  They enjoy dressing up as witches at Halloween, which is not even a Christian holiday.  I accept that Satan has been morphed from a good God into the Lord of all Evil.  I live with the fact I have to be more cautious with the symbols of my religion when the Christians don't have to be.

right, and lets be honest here. Do you think the government will actually plan to ban christmas, get it through the commons, get it through the lords and impliment it, in a majorly christian white society?.

How can anyone come here, and try and change our way of life?  Why should we bend to what they want?  They should abide by our rules, being guests in our country.

Did I miss something? Who's trying to change peoples way of life?

And they're not guests, shut up. They're tax-paying citizens, just like you and me. Wise up.

 one coming in the country is liable to pay tax Phil whether they be residents or not. Say you could come here as a visitor and the country will llow you to stay in that status so long as you have means to support yourself, if you have properties and get income from them you will pay tax and you will not be British, so read a bit and then re consider telling people to shut up.

 Let's put it simple folks.

 Try moving to say Syria. Try to do things you would do here without meaning to offend the locals or becoming a threat to them. Try to integrate.

 Yes some people migrate because there's no other choice but I will quote an Assyrian proverb which was then elaborated upon by a Muslim cab driver once.

 'When you go and try to take people's lands, they will come and try to take yours'

 He elaborated upon it and reached what to a lot of migrants not only muslim ones but people who have been colonies of any empire is a conviction.
 
 When these empires went and exploited these countries and left very little infrastructure or none, and only drained these countries from their riches a sentiment of wanting something back was and is fostered in these peoples.

 This particular man told me he saw it that way, that the British had gone and got all they wanted out of Pakistan, so why should he be kept from getting something back from what they took from them? Yes, he said, I want to live a decent quiet life without any of the bad things associated with us, but I do want some of what they took back.

 Spain has the same problem with Latin Americans, and guess what? unless you close your borders there's no way to stop it.

 I have no idea how it has to be dealt with, it just reminds me that it happened to every single great empire in the past and in the end they crumbled... Hopefully respectful and thorough integration can be possible, but double standards are not the way to reach it and that is how this is being dealt with.

 It would just be rather good of wishy washers could moderate themselves when they come with the 'facts' telling people to shut up because they aren't making sense. Not knowing how to put into words an opinion or a message is no excuse to be rude to anyone, even if you don't agree with them, after all in this society their votes count as much as yours do

 Only in the Mad Max days we will see a return to the survival of the fittest and I will wait for that time instead and let the world carry on the way it wants to until it gets to that.

[Blaen]

May I just say this topic was rather stupid in the first place but somehow has become something worth arguing about. Like Christmas is ever going to be band...Maybe if we lived in a communist police state but otherwise no. And whose offended by Christmas anyway? Muslims? Jews? I seriously doubt that anyone could be offended by a peaceful religious holiday unless they're some kind of religious zealot who thinks that theirs is the one true faith and everyone else should be purged from the face of the earth.

I myself am an Atheist but noones religion offends me. I respect the fact they chose to put their faith in something and if it helps them live better lives then good for them. I also believe that society should be made up of many different people from different faiths, backgrounds as diversity is not a bad thing, far from it.  If people like the BNP actually took the time to observe other cultures rather then brand them as evil they would realise that diversity is vital for Britain and infact any country. The people who come here are young and want to work, not mooche off the British government as some people would say. They come sometimes fleeing oppresion and what do they get but a bunch of facists like the BNP telling them they're not welcome and they should go back to their own country. Britains needs these immigrants! Come on we're an aging population ffs. We need more doctors and nurses, more hard workers, and less beaurocrats. If we closed our borders tomorrow than in no time at all we'd collapse as a society.

Personally as far as political correctness goes people should ignore it. People should think to themselves, "Will what I say offend people" and if they do this then the chances of them actually offending someone is slim to none, and even if they did I'm sure most people would simply say "I'm sorry I did not realise you found that offensive. I will not say it in future" and that'd be the end of it. But noone is going to stop celebrating a religious festival because someone disagrees with it. And noone can say they disagree with one religious festival without disagreeing with them all, or they're just hypocrites.

[Hyllyn]

 That would be in a perfect society Blaen, but alas this is no such perfect society. 

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