Northern Ireland?

[Jim]

Well there you have it. A big difference is that in Ireland there isn't 98% wanting to stay British. Statistics dont mean much to me but when it's as enormous of a majority that 98% want to stay, then theres not much that can be said. I'm not sure if they had a liberation army fighting in Gib against British occupation, either.

Although, there are also a lot of ethnic minorities in Ireland aswell. There are muslim, asian and eastern europeans spread across it, mainly in nationalist areas since they get kicked out by racist loyalists/combat 18

[Taurendil]

Never heard of a liberation army too, but know that they celebrate something like the day of dependence on Britain. It doesn’t matter much though.

A big difference is that in Ireland there isn't 98% wanting to stay British.

How many people do you reckon want to stay British in N. Ireland? 

[Phil]

Judging roughly on ideology (which is synonomous with religion) id say its a 51% want to stay British/independent....compared to 49% who want a united Ireland.

I'm no Catholic, that's for sure....but I am a republican. I'm not die-hard; a united Ireland isn't my top political goal as such, i certainly wouldn't die for it.

As far as Im concerned....while I believe the IRA campaign from 1970-1994 was justified, as they were given legitamacy under Bunreacht na hEireann (Irish Constitution: it placed its terrority over Northern ireland). But, after 1998, upon the ratification of the Belfast Agreement, thus the ammendment of Articles 2+3 claiming juristriction over N.I. - there was simply no need for the IRA, and there still isnt.

But I totally respect the IRA's armed struggle during the troubles, one mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter.

[Taurendil]

Well, like you said,

one mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter.

So maybe the British Army in Northern Ireland for those who want to stay British is smth like the IRA for the others?   

Judging by your data concerning how many people want to stay British and vice versa the situation is precious difficult. Moreover, as far as I understand these people not only want to stay British or become related to Ireland but also want N. Ireland itself to belong to Great Britain or Ireland.
If the data you provided is true then I see but one solution. N. Ireland should be ruled by both UK and Ireland, there should be established local government with certain rights, legislation and power.

[Phil]

So maybe the British Army in Northern Ireland for those who want to stay British is smth like the IRA for the others?

No. Because as far as Unionists are concerned, they've got freedom.

[Taurendil]

Do you think the conflict in N. Ireland tends to melt away? And if not what is the solution of the problem?

[Phil]

I don't know what you mean my 'melt away' 

[Taurendil]

I mean 'disappear'.

[Jim]

Well, like you said,

one mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter.

So maybe the British Army in Northern Ireland for those who want to stay British is smth like the IRA for the others?   

Judging by your data concerning how many people want to stay British and vice versa the situation is precious difficult. Moreover, as far as I understand these people not only want to stay British or become related to Ireland but also want N. Ireland itself to belong to Great Britain or Ireland.
If the data you provided is true then I see but one solution. N. Ireland should be ruled by both UK and Ireland, there should be established local government with certain rights, legislation and power.

Yeh it's called the Good Friday Agreement/Belfast Agreement/Stormont Agreement.

The other side (since I'm nationalist/republican) don't see the British army as freedom fighters, they see them as the legitimate army of Northern Ireland and the UK. But more importantly, the IRA haven't shot at the police or army in years. The first time the Police and Army where shot at in the past few years was by Loyalists earlier this year. Loyalists are the "freedom fighters" of unionists. They're also closely linked with Combat 18, the BNP, the National Front, and are in general thugs in suits who deal drugs to people and intimidate catholics and protestants. The IRA do not.

[Taurendil]

So, according to mentioned agreement the confict is smoothed over?

[Phil]

Investigate yourself.

[Taurendil]

Well, as far as I understood, the peace process has begun. I mean disbanding of the IRA, forming of government, decommissioning of all military groups, withdrawing many UK troops. I think it's only a matter of time now.   

[Phil]

forming of government

 

[Jim]

Well, as far as I understood, the peace process has begun. I mean disbanding of the IRA, forming of government, decommissioning of all military groups, withdrawing many UK troops. I think it's only a matter of time now.   

Right, well, there is only peace between each side for now as far as violence goes.
Political parties refuse time and time again to talk, the IRA did not disband.
The Provos (PIRA) destroyed their weapons, they did not disband.
The RIRA and the CIRA combined have the power to create another armed campaign, but probably won't apart from a few boneheaded dissidents.
The Northern Irish assembly (government) was dissolved, so direct rule from Westminster was re-established - What do you think Gerry Adams is complaining about? Unionists refuse (again) to talk and to hold back the place waiting for the seas to part.
Loyalists are yet to decommission.
And there are still as much UK troops in Northern Ireland as there are in Iraq.

[Edge]

Well, as far as I understood, the peace process has begun. I mean disbanding of the IRA, forming of government, decommissioning of all military groups, withdrawing many UK troops. I think it's only a matter of time now.   

No offense, but you haven't exactly been keeping up on current events have you? We as a people haven't had our own government since the Northern Ireland assembly collapsed after David Trimble (the 'then' leader of the Ulster Unionist Party) and his party walked out of government after the "stormontgate" scandal, whereby security, surveilance and spying equipment was found within the Sinn Feinn offices, equipment set up by MI5 in order to pin evidence on Sinn Feinn for an unknown objective. The plan was a failure, and we all now know that it was indeed an MI5 setup.....however, in the time subsequent to the collapse of the Assembly, there has been an election- and now the Unionist vote is controlled by none other than Ian Paisley, a man who is so hardline Loyalist, that he was a visable demonstrator against so-called "Nationalist concessions" in the late 60s when NICRA and our civil rights movements finally secured more equal rights in this country. Read up on him, he's one bad dude, and not a guy I want to stay alive much longer. Yes, he IS that bad.

So, we've established that we have no gevernment save for direct rule, which usually doesn't apply much to us anyway.


As for the Peace process, it's holding strong across the Catholic/Protestant and Loyalist/Nationalist people for now; however, the Loyalists are fighting over the control of their own areas, effectively engaging in gangland turf wars within their own areas. Remember the severe disturbances a few months back? There was a spate of killings done before the disturbances- turf wars were the cause.

So we do have a fragile peace, for now, and things are looking good- but the marching season is only 3-5 months to go, and the Loyalist Orangemen are not allowed to march down the Garvaghy road again this year, so there may be some edgy moments come nearer to July.


As for the British troops, you're wrong on that count- troops have been reassigned, but there is still a large contingent of troops here at all times to help the PSNI deal with the likes of the Loyalist  riots, to deal with counter terrorist operations and to deal with keeping the peace. They are rarely deployed on foot anymore though, when I, Jim and Phil were children, they used to patrol the streets in squads- don't have any bad memories of them thankfully, some of them would kick the football about and whatnot as you do. Nowadays, if they need to go somewhere they are mass deployed in jeeps, and there are fewer squads sent. Do you know that half of the Royal Irish Regiment (joke of a name that.) are stationed at their main base almost all of their serving time?


the only two (<insert as desired>para</insert>)military organisations to decomission arms were the IRA and the LVF.....now, the LVF was a gesture, a symbolic decomissioning- they still have a good quantity of weapons, wheras the IRA have decomissioned nearly all of the arms, save for a few personal protection weapons that were kept in the offchance that they needed to defend against the UVF, UFF, UDA or whoever. Every other group, including the aforementioned "U" groups, have not decommissioned and are on fact officially "on ceasefire" even though they are for some reason able to kill each other.


The point of the matter is, the statement you made makes the situation over here sound rosey, unfortunately that isn't so- the information is all there to see- this country is more tolerant, and we  Nationalist residents now have the equal rights that so many generations of Irish men and women fought, died and campaigned for. However, the drug/arms/tobacco smuggling continues, the Loyalist fueds continue, the bickering of our politicians still continues, and we're still no closer to a Government than we were before the IRA decommissioned. All because Ian Paisley and the DUP want more.....and more.....and more.....and so on.


I am a biased source, I'll admit that.....but most of what I have just said is fact, and a portion is my own speculative opinion.


It'll be interesting how the revelation that MI5 were responsable for Stormontgate is going to bear on the Unionist politicians, as they're running out of excuses not to talk with Sinn Fein, and it's going to be an inevitable outcome that there must be some talking done between parties.

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