The Origin of Elves - for discussion

[Hyllyn]

 Athelas.

 You are a medic, am I right? or a doctor should that be the case.

 Apply some anatomy knowledge there and then try to reason how a being like a Centaur could exist? Can you imagine the sempiternal back aches? or how the heart would have coped with pumping blood through two bodies? I don't know much about siamese mutations not as much as I would like at least, but I think that when sharing a single vital organ it makes it incredibly difficult to perform things a Centaur could have done.  Cyclops? yeah, definately I have seen modern day evidence of the mutation which causes the phenomena. However there are things which are definately old wives tales, by all means I believe that, however ruling out that all of what nowadays is confined to 'imagination' does not exist because a few mythological beings have no possible anatomical right to exist is going a bit too far. Otherwise we would have to rule out all the mythological creatures that are mentioned in the Bible too and Dinosaurs a while ago as well.

 I have a great interest in hybridization and mutations, not the kind where little green men chop bits from you and put different ones, but our own and those existing in the animal kingdom based on that is why I feel there's a good possibility that things that don't exist anymore are in one way or another hybridized or mutated.

 Take Dinosaurs and their evolution into birds for example.

 Or another one which is one of my favourites.

 I drew this theory pairing several disciplines to explain myself how metals described in books (fantasy usually) could have existed.

 If we throw a line back to our primeval times of geological evolution we will find that most elements that are now separate into the many we know nowdays could have been part of one alone. Through the sieving and metamorfic function of geological dynamics we have got to the stage where these elements are in separate form or what we nowadays call 'pure elements'. But what if like nowadays stones like Ametrine (which have half the looks of a Citrine and half the looks of an Amethist), we have had a metal like which looked like silver but had high fusion point and ferrous capabilities like that of the steel? it would mean you could have hardened the stuff and still would have looked like a noble metal, if you wish you can draw the conclusion you wish on the metal I'm referring to.

 I use that same one when trying to explain to myself the nature of the one ring rather than stick to Tolkien's argument of the 'evil nature of gold' kind of crap. And then I think, what if it had been gold in colour but with such a high fusion point due to other traces or elements that only working it somewhere where you can achieve extreme temperatures (e.g A Volcano) would have made it possible? You have such elements in this day and age which can only be worked (not smelted) on extremely hot blast furnances (way hotter than your usual home made kiln).

 I could carry on, but I think this conveys what I wanted to say.

 I'm loving this topic and certainly look forward to its development 

 

[EG]

the only trouble, with people being able to beleive more in dinosaurs, is again physical evidence, i.e their bones.

However,, Im also mindful of the fact that a species, similar to that of the Hobbit has only just been discovered.... and yeah I agree Nil... just because we havent discoverd physical evidence, doesnt mean it didnt exist.... who knows what we might discover in the future

[Hyllyn]

 Well take for example, the fact that so little viking remains are found, but only their burials. What does that tell us? Well they used to cremate themselves, so are we going to find any bones? We certainly don't know if burials were adopted by whatever species has existed here of if it's a trend of the last few thousands of years

 Also bear in mind, if any of these species would have existed they would have probably been pre glaciation time, or immediately after at the latest. Very little chance to discover much if remains had been hmmm say cremated.

 Ruins? edifications? I don't know about those but well I don't hold all answers, still I don't pretend to jump on the badwagon of saying something doesn't exist just because I don't understand it, or because I don't know enough about it.

[EG]

im never brave enough to say, just because i havent seen the evidence it doesnt exist

too much in this world is unexplained.

Take King Arthur... did he exist ?  Jesus   did he

[Hyllyn]

im never brave enough to say, just because i havent seen the evidence it doesnt exist

too much in this world is unexplained.

Take King Arthur... did he exist ?  Jesus   did he

 Of course Jesus existed! not one but many of them 
 
 Clickey and read (it's by no means a piss take btw)

 Jesus

 As for Arthur,  I really don't know, to me at times it sounds like a collective figure, the embodiement of an idea adopted by several people rather than one individual. it just makes more sense to me when you read about habits of ancient britons where one man would become the King Stag and commit himself to protect the land at the cost of his own life.

 I was thinking about the whole issue concerning ruins, and I remembered that whilst in Italy I visited a fortification called Rocca Calascio. It has a rather interesting story.

 The people who populated the region originally were the Samnites but they found it there already built. The Etruscans didn't build it, and when the Romans found it they also stated that it was already built in the form of a beacon tower which they fortified and also used for that purpose. Eventually they extended the wall and turrets and a small settlement to keep the garrison provisioned, also if you explore the area there are small cave like holes (some say a network) where they used to store their provisions and people in case of a raid whilst the garrison defended the fortification.

 Here you can see the place Rocca Calascio

 

(check out for the extensions made to the wall and tower)

 Also it's to be noted that the main building never held several rooms, it's got only and entrance, a grid which leads to a big deep hol where pressumably the wood for the beacon was stored, and then lifted onto the top level which would have been open and ready to take the load for the beacon. (there are other later beacon towers in along the old road from Pescara, to Alba Fuscens and to Rome but this one is the real enigma).

 With time it changed but only little, most of its construction remains from its original form.

 And what is amazing about it? It's out of context, that kind of fortification did not exist at the time and obviously not knowing who made it poses another interesting twist to the possible explanations.

 Who knows ei? 
 

[Lessa]

The trouble with the Arthur legend is that the Normans fiddled with it and distorted it out of all recognition and so that makes finding out if there is some basis in it extremely difficult.

Lessa

[Beleriel]

Well, lets face it Lessa, there are many many versions of such arent there?  But I will say that I like the idea of his being a Roman officer with Sarmatians (sp?)  being his knights.

But anyway, back to elves.

I find it interesting that just because one chooses to believe in elves as opposed to a single being who was supposed to create the world that one becomes open to derision.  I think any belief is valid if the person who believes it can justify it in their own minds.  (ok that was really waffly but I had trouble getting it out!    )

I certainly like the multiverse theory and it could go a long way to explaining the unexplainable.  Safe to say though, that personally I have always believed that Middle Earth and the inhabitants of it existed from the very first time I learned about them I felt that there was a bases in reality.  Something I cannot really explain.   

[Lessa]

I know what you mean B. It's an intuitive feeling rather than something based in fact. I felt the same way myself on first reading lotr. I think that there is so much visual and historical detail that you have a job believeing it is just fiction.

Lessa

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