Elrond and the River

[Beleriel]

So you put it down to the Ring then?  I always thought that elves had a special affinity with nature and therefore wielded some power over it... hence Elrond's ability to harness the waters of the River within the boundaries of his home. 

[Lessa]

It's possible that it was a bit of both B. Perhaos the ring enhanced his inate abilities.

Lessa

[Athelas]

  Maybe Elrond did use his Ring to swell the river. Even if he gave away the location of his Ring to his enemies in the process, he was preventing the One Ring from falling into the hands of the Nazgul. What better use could it possibly be put to?
  Like when Gandalf used his ability to ignite the wet wood on Caradhras and proclaim GANDALF IS HERE. The alternative was to let the Fellowship freeze to death.
  There's a time to hide your powers, and a time to use them!

[Lessa]

yes it's no good hiding your powers if it causes the failure of the very thing you want to succeed.

Lessa

[EG]

yes but the elves had their own magic, as did Gandalf, irrespective of the Rings they wore.

The Rings could have been used to enhance it, but the level of magic they possessed on their own, meant they did not need the power of their rings too.

Elrond used Vilya to help build Rivendell.  I would have thought that its existence there would be enough to protect it.  Its certainly how Galadriel used Nenya, to protect Lorien.

(oh as an aside, the three Rings were not originally given to Elrond, Galadriel and Cirdan. All rings were made by Celembrimbor, who in turn gave Nenya to Galadriel, the other two to Gil-Galad.   Gil-Galad then passed Narya onto Cirdan for safe keeping at the Havens, and later gave Vilya to Elrond, his natural heir.  Cirdan on witnessing the return of the Istari, considered Gandalf to be the most powerful, passed Narya onto him.  All elven rings then naturally left Middle Earth with their keepers at the end of the Third Age)

[Taurendil]

Actually, I agree with Beleriel

So you put it down to the Ring then?  I always thought that elves had a special affinity with nature and therefore wielded some power over it... hence Elrond's ability to harness the waters of the River within the boundaries of his home. 

Elves are the creatures connected with nature, maybe even a personificated nature, so to say. But then I'm not sure if Thranduil for example could command the waters of Forest River that flows past his Halls. Elrond being heir of Gil-galad, the last king of the Noldor had special knowledge, power and wisdom, which other Sindar, Sylvan hadn't.

[EG]

so you dont beleive that Vilya had any use to Elrond at all ?  that he simply did not need it

[Lessa]

at this point in time Elrond wore Vilya didn't he? It was only when Sauron had the ring that the elves had to conceal the rings.

[EG]

yeah they wore the Rings, but didnt they make them invisible to everyone

[Lessa]

from what I've read it's the rings that become invisible when worn by the elves. Perhaps when another race wears them the invisibility becomes all encompassing.

[Taurendil]

They're the elven rings, made by Celebrimbor(if I spelt it right) and not the one. They were designed for elves, so there's no reason for them or the elves to become invisible.

so you dont beleive that Vilya had any use to Elrond at all ?  that he simply did not need it

I believe, these rings of power were not made to directly control rivers, air, etc. They were things that in some way helped to stop the changing, waning of the place (Rivendel, Grey Havens), as far as I remember. Partially, the loss of power of the rings made Elrond, Galadriel feel weary of Middle-earth. Though this doesn't explain how Gandalf used the Red one since he wasn't an elf.

I tend to think that the waters of Loudwater (btw, perhaps the name 'Loudwater' is of significance here also) were moved by some sort of invocation or spell, just like in the film.

[EG]

I agree it wasnt Vilya that raised the river, but in my opinion since it was part of the borders of Rivendell, Elrond had control over it.. well had the power to "ask" it to look after the elven haven and its inhabitants...

The rings were used to help create the havens and to protect them... but Elrond was definately weary of ME way before Vilya lost power.  He was ready to leave, before the One Ring was destroyed... I think he stayed only out of obligation... but he passed the battle on to others... "the time of the elves is over"  it wasnt his battle.. and that had nothing to do with the power or not power of Vilya.

They're the elven rings, made by Celebrimbor(if I spelt it right) and not the one. They were designed for elves, so there's no reason for them or the elves to become invisible.

but the Three were invisible to others ..... until after the One was destroyed.. the bearers werent invisible, but Galadriel and Elrond, made the Rings hidden to the naked eye...

[Taurendil]

I agree it wasnt Vilya that raised the river, but in my opinion since it was part of the borders of Rivendell, Elrond had control over it.. well had the power to "ask" it to look after the elven haven and its inhabitants...

The rings were used to help create the havens and to protect them... but Elrond was definately weary of ME way before Vilya lost power.  He was ready to leave, before the One Ring was destroyed... I think he stayed only out of obligation... but he passed the battle on to others... "the time of the elves is over"  it wasnt his battle.. and that had nothing to do with the power or not power of Vilya.

Hmmm.  I remember reading somewhere that the rings did play a part in leaving of the elves though.

They're the elven rings, made by Celebrimbor(if I spelt it right) and not the one. They were designed for elves, so there's no reason for them or the elves to become invisible.

but the Three were invisible to others ..... until after the One was destroyed.. the bearers werent invisible, but Galadriel and Elrond, made the Rings hidden to the naked eye...

Where is it said?

[EG]

I beleive tho I cant put my hand on the quote right now, it says the rings were hidden forever, in the Tale of Elves in the Unfinished Tales....

[Lessa]

at Galadriel's mirror Frodo was permitted to see her ring but Sam saw nothing other than her naked finger

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