The Age of the Ring (Lord of the Rings) Forum
Off Topic Section => World Events => Topic started by: Jøesmø on July 02, 2005, 01:33:11 PM
-
((Feel free to move this if the GEneral board is not fitting for it))
I was wondering, was this a real thing, or was it a threat. I got confused from watching the movie Dirty War... please enlighten me... :8o
-
I am afraid I have no idea... Has there been some kind of attack recently? I have just got in from work, and know nothing, so I am confused!! :8o
-
As I recall it was a response to the former USSR states having access to the uranium which powers there nuclear warheads and the possibility of their selling them to terrorist groups in exchange for hard currency.
The film was a worst case scenario and didn't happen but could if the above occurred.
Lessa
-
Now that would be a worry... :-\
-
like other forms of terrorism the mere thought of it is frightening so you have to put it out of your mind and continue your life otherwise they win.
I remember in the 70s our school had a bomb threat at least once a term but we just turned out for the firealarm waited for the ok from the fire brigade and got on with life thankful we had missed Maths or english or science. It never made us afraid of going to school or walking around everyday for that matter.
Lessa
-
When you think about tactics of terror you can't just put it out of your mind Lessa.
If you picture the situation it's like a Siege, but to a psychological level, and during a siege you don't ignore it and carry on as if nothing is happening. What you do is either defend, or concentrate all your resources into the besieger's weakest point and then break through because eventually besiegers starve you out.
You could quote the experiences of ETA and IRA but still it's there, ETA ruined the chances Madrid had of hosting the olympic games, IRA still has a country divided (well perhaps not all of their own doing but with a lot of help of Henry VIII).
In Colombia you basically have two governments, the guerrillas and the government.
What does it all say? no solution has been found but if you don't keep trying they will still be there and take over.
-
What I meant was that you don't have to dwell on it all the time and if the worst happens as it did in Manchester in 1996 fortunately without fatalities then you pick yourself up dust yourself off and get on with your life.
Granted you take sensible precautions like not picking up an unattended bag but reporting it instead.
Lessa
-
Certainly.
A self educating campaign is also essential to realising what lies beneath the motivations of terrorists... then the whole picture broadens and even oen can begin to realise their methods and get to avoid or tamper their actions.
-
The difference between the governments reaction to the real threat of the IRA here on the mainland and the, so far, perceived threat of action by middle east factions is that then we were asked to be vigilant for such packages that were left unattended. Now we have to have things like the restriction of moevement for certain persons and the ID cards for everyone else. Now to me this is an unwarranted overreaction both to civil liberties in general and the imprisonment without trial of individuals.
Lessa
-
This might be a good debate for the world events board, actually...
*goes to move it* :)
-
"Terrorist" attacks aren't a threat, if your army keeps its guard up.
"Terrorists" aren't going to fire a nuke into the middle of Birmingham or London, if anything they would rather go after America a bit more.
It's like saying "The IRA have links with arab countries, are they gonna nuke london?!?!?!?".
-
The IRA have never, nor will the ever, target innocent civillians. Many of their (in my eyes, justified and lawful) bombing campaigns in London have been economical, political and military targets. They were carefully planned so that as little civilians as possible would be injured/killed. Unfortunately many people happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, casualties DO happen, so immediately the British media jumps in "Oh! This is a 'crime' against the people of England"....bollocks to that, because it's not. I'll give a few examples...
1 - The IRA bombed Canary Wharf in 1996 - the financial heart of London...wanted to cause millions of pounds of damage (and they did) to the British treasury. One person was killed. The reson why they bombed in this case was because the Conservative government at the time was giving consessions to the Unionist political parties in Northern Ireland, by banning Republican political parties from the peace talks...why? Because the Tories had lost alot of marginal seats to Labour in 1992 and they wanted the Unionist support in the House of Commons.
2. A chip shop was bombed on the hugely protestant Shankill Road in Belfast (about 5 mins from where I live). Unfortunatly 9 people lost their lives in the bombing, plus one of the bombers Thomas Begley. Again the media jumped to the conclusion that the IRA had purposely sought out to kill innocent Protestants, which was also untrue for the reason I'm about to give you; the owner of that particular chip shop owned an apartment above it. He allowed several predominant loyalist paramilitary leaders use that apartment to discuss "tactics" - alot of innocent Catholics had their fate decided there.
The IRA a number of years ago apologised to all innocent victims of the armed struggle....something which many so-called terrorist groups fail to do. It also must be remembered that "one mans terrorist...is another mans freedom fighter."
I'm sorry if I'm tarring you all with the same brush, but many English people believe that the IRA are this "bad bunch of terrorists who want to kill all English people and all Protestants" - which is really untrue. I'm willing to bet that there will be some people who read this post, hate the IRA with a passion, but support the British Army in all what they do. Well I'm a Catholic from Belfast who supports the Irish-Nationalist ideology...and anyone who hasnt lived in Northern Ireland as a Catholic will not know the sheer brutality that the British Army made the people in my area suffer. The Army has murdered many unarmed Catholics (under the media headline that they were "armed IRA terrorists") and gotten away completely scratch-free, free from any scrutiny over their actions. The most famous case of that is the Bloody Sunday massacre, were 13 innocent Catholic civil rights marchers were shot dead by the British Parachute Regiment. Another is when Thomas Fisher and Mark Wright (soldiers), shot dead an unarmed father of two babies - Mark Hamill dead....for reasons unknown (of course under the headline he was carrying a bomb). Lee Clegg (soldier) shot 17 year old girl in the back...also for reasons unknown....
I don't care how I may seem to anyone....but as far as I'm concerned, I'm a Catholic from Belfast telling it like it is....from the world as I see it......
-
I dont think theres any justification for causing the death of another person, whoever does it
-
I dont think theres any justification for causing the death of another person, whoever does it
Absolutely. However the motives behind such actions should be taken into account.....and not for calous murder, manslaughter. I know no one is justified to kill anyone, but mass murder wasn't on the IRA's mind when planning bombing campaigns.
However it's different when it's during a war thats morally illegal...for example Gulf War I&II...etc.
-
ah well, matter of opinion again..
I dont agree with what is happening in Northern Ireland... I really wish someone could sort it out there, so no one need live in fear from anyone, but I dont know how that will be ever possible.,
(did you ever watch the programme "Yes Minister" ??? there was a sketch there, where they said, the best way to control a country was to split it in 2 and let it fight over itself within itself... I still find that too close to the truth, its frighetning)
as for the Gulf War.... well thats another discussion.... somewhere along the line, someone had to call a halt. But again we're entering the realms of the G8 discussion.. Do the countries in the G8 have too much democratic power, that will eventually backfire :-\ Is so much "democracy" actually dicatorial ???
-
I think many people misinterpret life in Northern Ireland. Compared to 25 years ago, it as normal as any other city in the UK...honestly. Walking to the nearest shop or supermarket or going into the City Centre in Belfast is no different than from doing the same thing in Manchester or Newcastle or Leeds....yes, about 25 years ago the place was completely war-torn, there was a burnt out building in every corner...but now Belfast is really on the map. Its in the top 5 places to be a student, the music scene and the nightclub scene is fantastic and the people are generally friendly, skyscrapers are raising from the ruins that was Belfast of 25 years ago...it's a good place to live, I enjoy living here and i'll never move unless I have to....so I don't live in fear of anything, personally, I know Protestant people and get on with them with no hassle whatsoever. People have no need to fear anything unless they've done something to be fearful of the consequences, and thats the same in any town in the UK.
-
very true
and many towns arent safe at all!
You're right tho, we do live in fear of the "troubles " in N Ireland. All we hear here is the bad news, and the fighting and the killings.
-
It's true that there will always be paramilitary linked killings. I mean if some people have their hands on guns they've obviously going to use them...but it is slightly niave in saying that you live in fear of the NI troubles...thats the same thing as saying I live in fear of racism in England, or the National Front stabbing some black student in Birmingham or wherever...yes it happens....but it's not on a scale where many people are made to believe.
-
Yeah. Belfast, normaly city. Go to Manchester or Essex or Aberdeen and it'll be the same. Belfast is also getting dearer by the minute though, and personally I wouldn't walk up the Shankill road or through Sandy row just yet. The two sides aren'y hugging each other and buying each other pints.
There are still people flibbled in the head with thier views and ways of life, still people despising one and other because of opinions and religion (because not every republican and unionist are catholic and protestant), and there is the nee particular fat bigot who refuses to talk.
In saying that, Belfast is still a normal city, ya not gonna get shot for getting milk.
As for Terrorism in the UK, "Terrorism" is there for a reason. These people don't wake up in the morning, phone the lads and go "right feel like bombing the brighton hotel?".
The media have been known for giving one sided stories. Years ago there was an IRA member who ran over two kids while driving, that's the medias story to the British people. What actually happened was that he was shot dead by British soldiers while driving. He was dead by the time he hit the kids... Thats one example out of many, see whadda'mean?
-
The problem of sectarianism in Northern Ireland isn't any worse than the problem of racism in England...and to be honest, race-crime is on the increase here in NI....
-
Mmm.
You could say I'm properly secterian to loyalists, but not protestants, because loyalists have been proven to have links with the National front and all that, and it's just not on.
-
Alot of the "Terrorist attacks" is blown out of proportion. But where the attacks really take place, the imformation about it, we don't really get told about it.
Because the goverment limit what we are told.
-
and many towns arent safe at all!
London today wasnt a very safe place to be. My sympathy goes out to all those who were affected by the carnage.
Only a couple of days ago I was worrying what would happen if...
...And now it did. Its certainly not good. :(
-
Oh, man, I've been praying for all of you today. For London, too. That's horrible. :( Many prayers, you guys. I hope it doesn't happen again.
-
Found out whilst at school; so many people's parents and family were up there. My father, two uncles and an aunt were all in the city; one uncle was stuck in the Tube behind one of the trains that were attacked. But thankfullly they're all fine.
The worst thing for me was seeing the buses - they're such a symbol of home for me, and seeing them all so ripped up...just horrible. And I've been in those places so recently, made it all worse.
It's stupid, I'm still shaken. Really, truly shaken up.
Thanks Cuthien. Me too.
-
Aw, I'm glad your family's okay. When I saw it on the news this morning, I started thinking of all you guys and how many of you could be there or know someone there.... :-\
-
My dad told me about the bombings at lunchtime so I watched
the news to see what had happened altogether and for
updates etc. I am so upset but angry by how someone can
do such an immoral and disgusting act.
I have great sympathy for the victims and families that
were affected by the bombings. I hope that those who have
been affected are OK and are safe and with their families.
I'm really worried about what could happen next and where
the next bombing could take place.
-
On 9/11/01 I was very worried for my sister's safety. She worked, and still does, in Manhattan, but fortunately, about a mile away from the World Trade Center.
I hope no one at this site was injured or had a family member injured as a result of the terrorist activity in London yesterday morning.
-
London today wasnt a very safe place to be. My sympathy goes out to all those who were affected by the carnage.
Only a couple of days ago I was worrying what would happen if...
...And now it did. Its certainly not good. :(
I, too, Waelith, thought about "What if..." and now look, it's so upsetting.
I found out when I woke up: 11:30.
I've never been so shocked in my life. The first thing I heard about was the bus' top deck being blown off.
I was so taken aback by hearing all these train's had at least one carriage torn apart. And many people
telling reporter's their accounts of what they heard and saw. It was just horrific.
Thankfully all my relatives are ok. And I hope everyone else on here who has been or are in London are ok
and their relatives too.
It's sad how people want to take revenge or just hurt and kill people like this. Innocent people who have
done nothing to the bombers themselves.
I heard on the news that "They'll always remember 7/7" <- Saying that this is like our 9/11. Obviously
this hasn't caused as many deaths as 9/11, which I'm not saying is a good thing. At all.
It was a shock to the system to see hundreds of people walking home. Or to a near enough train
station so they could try and get home.
-
I've got to admit, I crapped them earlier when I was watching the coverage of the bombing, mostly for the fact that most of my best friends over there use Kings Cross at times, and that I myself have been there every time I've been in England. It's a very important area of the City, so you can imagine I texted my friends immediately to see if they were OK.....which thankfully they are. :)
This series of bombings make little sense to me, as since no-one has claimed responsability, any political, social or in some way justifiable reasoning they could have gave just went out the window, as was any real reason as to why these attacks could have happened.
As far as I'm concerned, no attack on the public (and I'm talking about civilians here) that takes lives away is justified, no matter the reasoning- I'm OK with fighting for freedom, I'm OK with scare tactics to put the excrement up the Government- but when you target the actual people of a state, wether it's British, American, Irish, French, Korean or whomever then the line must be drawn and the very idea put to bed.
Now, with that said- I do want to see whomever did this suffer for it- suffer great! For it could have been anyone in that blast, it could have been children, or good friends of mine- it could have affected anyone; that's how random and idiotic the attack was.
Funny thing is that the attacks weren't even strategically sound- they targeted individual vehicles thinking that that in some way would prove a point. The only thing it proven was how much of a pile of scum the perps really are.
On the subject of Northern Ireland, I must ask anyone that thinks the IRA are the main "terrorist" group here to go and look at the UFF, UVF, LVF, Red Hand Commando and Paisley's army whom I've forgotten the name of. Some of the above are linked and/or ringleading the North's Drug links, reaching as far as Scotland in their empire of drug money, with Glasgow being the most affected. They have also reputedly been involved in prostitution, and illegal thuggery such as their own personal feuds of which there is a new one every time you think it's cooled down.
Personally, the only thing I know the IRA to do in the North is to put the excrement up Joyriders and drug dealers, which is upon whom many of the so-called "punishment- beatings" are commited.
I'm not saying they are devoid of blame, they are an organisation with the power to deal death and have done in the past, just like any paramilitary organisation, but some reading into Loyalist feuds and the drug rings of the North would give you a flipside to the anti-IRA coin.
And yeah, I agree with F.L.C, in that this country is flourishing and has become a bastion of calm compared to what it was.
That's part of our problem though.
When the troubles were at their most violent, people here were at their hardiest- they were wary of violence and held their own personal morals. Nowadays, with the groups disarming and stepping down (visibility wise anyway.) the youth see only a bunch of "old men" and not the romantic sort of sect they were once seen as- that may sound dumb, but you know; that presence was enough to keep common crime down. Nowadays, my area has become more influxed with drugs and joyriding- most especially the Poleglass and Turf Lodge areas of the town.....back when the IRA were active they didn't allow that into the community.
That may sound like I'm condoning, I'm not- I'm pointing out that there is a difference in thinking these days compared to back then. Nowadays there isn't any real threat of the troubles flaring again, the notions that the groups could kill you is now washing from our minds- as liberalism and freedom increase, so too does the ability to not care for that freedom and to create crime- or so it seems in this country in parts anyway.
Actually, it's getting to the point where white supremacism, using the swastika and the "white power" slogans that made the KKK famous is now beginning to flare up, most especially in Loyalist areas, most reputedly in Sandy Row and other such hardline areas. We have a bit of it too, but it's not really as vocal, or as readily grafittied.
Bottom line is really, when people wake up to the pettyness and stop the differences there will be peace proper. Not before.
Anyhow, hopefully everyone from here living in or around London are OK, sorry for the long post but hey, it's what I do.
Anyway, goodnight and I'll talk to you soon. :)
-
I'm extremely angry about the events of yesterday - I think its disgusting and immoral. I'm a little disturbed that this topic was opened just 5 days before it happened, believing in premonitions and such, but, well, sometimes things like that happen.
Anyway, my friend was knocked into a coma by a piece of flying metal. Her family, thankfully, escaped with minor cuts and bruises. But my friend being so hurt has affected me deeply. It may be way down on the other end of the island, but its still hurting us all up here. I don't care what measures the government has to take here to avenge the deaths. Al Quieda have claimed responsibility, but I expect several Islamic militant groups shall claim responsibility throughout the week, so its too early to take any claims seriously.
My dad raised a very interesting point yesterday - He doesn't think Al Quieda truly exists. His theory is that its a lot of different Islamic groups using the united name because its one we would recognise. Interesting point.
-
Kirstie, I am sorry to hear about your friend. I hope she is getting better.
When something like this happens, the whole country is in shock, but when you are personally involved because you, or a loved one or a friend have been present by this. It affects you more. And you'll probably have the memory of it for a long time.
I think that point your dad made is a very good one, and obviously relivant. I mean, this group claiming to be a secret European
group of Al Quieda, claiming to have done it, there could be plenty more groups out there who use the same name. Go by the same rules, believe in the same faith etc.
-
...And a lot of these "secret" groups are full of people who the government let slip through the immigration process, and given permission to stay here...and then there are the ones who sneaked in, and the government, and immigration authorities dont even know they are here! :-\
-
Yeah. There are a number of people who have slipped through and who are at risk of setting off bombs etc, planning attacks, but there are alot of people who come into this country, who some people think are dangerous, the British people think are dangerous, but their not. They're just people who have had to escape or just left their own country because they have goverment issues or problems with their own goverment, and their rule.
Ok, rant over.... Sorry..
Anyway, Waelith, yes, I agree, some of these groups and societies are set up in this country and around Europe and we have no idea how many of them, there are, do we?
-
No we don't and it seems they grow out of the ground like mushrooms.
I just want to say how deep this attacks touched us here in New Zealand. A lot of colleagues are from UK and at least nearly everybody has been at least once in London. Well, I was there several times and I love the city and her people. And it hurts to see the places I know so well destroyed and spoiled by this attacks. But even more I am troubled about the many losts of life and the many injured victims. What can men do against such reckless hate? And will it ever end?
-
Will it ever end? Apparantly not. Some bright sparks have just set off dummy bombs on the tube and on a bus. >(
-
Oh my God, have you seen the families of the victims, moaning because they are only being payed £11,000 compensation!!! >(
What...my friend was killed a month ago by 2 asian lads, should his family get paid £11,000???
-
The attacks were atrocious and anyone who was injured in the attacks or knew anyone who died as a result you have my deepest sympathy. It was a shock and I watched the news all day but we must not let them win, we must carry on with our lives. This new warfare will not defeat us, we are strong and with the help of our friends and families we can come through this. Terrorists want attention to put a stop to our normal lives. I rarely travel to London but after the attacks I actaully wanted to go and see some of the sights that our magnificant capital has to offer.
Remember we have nothing to fear but fear itself-Frankilin.D. Roosevelt
-
Oh my God, have you seen the families of the victims, moaning because they are only being payed £11,000 compensation!!! >(
What...my friend was killed a month ago by 2 asian lads, should his family get paid £11,000???
You can't put a price on life.
As for the fundamentalist terrorism, I can't say anything for fear of sounding racist, which I am certainly not.
-
I think it's disgusting how thats all people think about when they lose a family member...MONEY
Totally unrelated, but I saw something on the front of a newspaper where a girl died and the cannabis smoking driver only got fined £60 for her death.....god, I hate people.
-
the way in which the gouvernments deal with this certain topic is stupid. :8o problems dont jus go away if u throw money at them, it mearly drives people to get more and more extreme, until the world actually notices. >(
-
Bearing in mind that no amount of money can change the fact that a loved one has died, why don't the government instead use the money they would give to the families, to help put measures in place to stop this sort of thing happening again?
This topic kinda crosses over with immigration, which I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on.
-
Bearing in mind that no amount of money can change the fact that a loved one has died, why don't the government instead use the money they would give to the families, to help put measures in place to stop this sort of thing happening again?
This topic kinda crosses over with immigration, which I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on.
thats true the money doesnt really make up for the loss of a life, i mean can u actually put a rice on a life..