The Age of the Ring (Lord of the Rings) Forum
Off Topic Section => World Events => Topic started by: Waelith on June 04, 2005, 08:15:47 PM
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This topic was suggested to me by Scarlet... I think it would be an interesting topic to have in this section, as I think it would make a good debate. It is also something which I have a few issues about myself, and a lot of what is happening with teenagers getting pregnant is very true. I live in an area where teenage pregnancy is indeed rife, as are a lot of STD infections among this age group.
What do you think needs to be done about this? Should it be condoned, or discouraged by the authorities? What do you think the schools, parents, and government do, and should do to try and sort this problem out?
Teenage Pregnancy: By Scarlet
Natasha, Jemma and Jade Williams with children Amani, T-Jay and Lita
Three schoolgirl sisters have given birth aged 12, 14 and 16.
The Williams sisters, who live with their mother in a council house in Derby, feature in a BBC3 documentary called Desperate Midwives.
Natasha, the oldest, Jade and Jemma, the youngest, are reported to receive £600 a week in benefits.
Their mother Julie Atkins, 38, who said the girls were too young and had ruined their lives, blamed schools for providing poor quality sex education.
Jemma was first to give birth, to T-Jay in February last year, and weeks later Jade and Natasha discovered they were pregnant.
Natasha had daughter Amani in November and Jade followed with Lita in December. The younger sisters are still at school.
Mrs Atkins told the Sunday Mercury: "I don't care what people say about me. I blame the schools - sex education for young girls should be better."
The sisters feature in the BBC3 series Desperate Midwives: The real truth about childbirth, starting from 9pm on Monday.
Episode seven follows a midwife from the Derby City hospital as she helps the family prepare for the third child.
Mrs Atkins told the Sun that she still found it difficult to believe what had happened.
"They are still little girls and now they have babies of their own," she said. "But I don't care what people say, I love my kids and I'm here to help them.
"If I could turn back the clock, I would prefer them not to have children. Their education is so important."
Two of the girls are no longer in contact with their children's fathers.
Jemma is quoted in the Sun as saying: "I only told my boyfriend David, who was 14 at the time, but I didn't want to have an abortion.
"He was my first love but now I'm gutted because he doesn't want to have anything to do with me or T-Jay."
My Opinion
I read about this in The Sun sometime last week and I thought that the three teenage girls who had kids at such a young age is not only appalling but irresponsible. It's reported that each of them earn £600 a week from benefits which is approximately £30,000 a year and
apparently, we have to pay part of our taxes just for girls like these.
I cannot believe that the mother Julie Atkins is blaming the school
for providing poor quality of sex education. Maybe the school do have some part to play in this BUT I think that the mother should be just as
responsible for letting this happen to her daughters. No mother would
let their 12 year old daughter get pregnant and in my opinion
(I know this sounds harsh) she does not discipline her daughters.
I do think it's horrific how they get so much benefits from this and
especially if we do have to pay part of our taxes for them. I did
discuss this with a teacher before as we get on well and we do
debate about things. I did think why should we pay for their benefits
when we work hard and they don't have a job and have a rent-free
flat HOWEVER two of the girls are still in education and not old
enough to go out to work.
I would like to know your opinions about this. Who do you think is
to blame for this predicament? The school or the mother?
What do you think about the girls who got themselves pregnant
and also about the mother?
(Contribution by Scarlet)
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I blame neither the school nor the mother 100% although they may have contributed slightly. I blame the girls themselves, it's not as though they didn't know that if you have unprotected sex that you get pregnant, they did. The mother cannot be entirely to blame as she cannot watch over her children for every second of every day, and you cannot entirely blame the school either as they cannot stop people having underage and unprotected sex, they can only do so much.
I find the amount of benefits they get a year sickening! Both my parents together only earn a little more than that a year (My dad is on incapacity benefit and recieves little in comparison to these girls). Underage sex is against the law yet these girls have been rewarded for their actions with vast sums of money. It's disgraceful.
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When I was at school, there was plenty of sex education...I believe we were taught about it about three times a year. I don't know what it is like now because I haven't been at school for 4 years now but you cannot blame the school because I believe that the majority of schools have a pretty good thing for sex education. I would be surprised if they didn't.
The girls themselves are to blame. They know the consequences about sex and what it does if you are not protected, and even if you're not, there are plenty of birth control methods for after the event has taken place. I find it quite sick how there is a 12 year old who is pregnant! She's not even a teenager yet and she's having a kid! By the time she is 20, the kid is going to be 8. I have no respect for kids who have sex at an early age and get pregnant. They try and blame it on other people when it's them thats at fault.
I find it hard to believe that Britain has the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe. It just goes to show how many slutty chav-like people that live in this country. It always seems to be chav-like girls who get up the duff too :dry:
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Agreed Jez.
I'l probably going to get some stick here cos I got pregnant with my first at 18, and was 19 when I had him. The difference is that I was in a stable, long term relationship and I was an adult.
I find it disgusting that these kids are having sex at such a young age. At 12 you know that having sex is how you get pregnant. And as for blaming the school well that's just stupid. The mother ALLOWED her children to have sex in her house, and also is it not her responsibility to teach her children about sex? Fair enough sex ed in schools could be improved, but the mother is obviously trying to fond someone else to blame.
I feel so sorry for the poor kids involved. They are going to grow up with slappers for mothers, and no fathers.
As for the benefits they get, I don't think they would get quite that much. As a single mum I get just over £100 per week. But I agree about them seeming to be rewarded by the government.
This really gets me riled so I'll stop now before I get too stressed out.
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What gets me going is that us people that work have to pay for these slappers. We have to work our fingers to bone while they get to sit at home all day doing nothing. I don't mind if the money goes to mothers that need the money, but when people like them just get pregnant for the sake of it, thats what annoys me.
Them three kids who got pregnant that were mentioned in the first post will probably never have to work in their life ever again, if they did at all. I reckon half these people only do it because they won't have to work for years and years...
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I think it's true that some little slappers will do it out of laziness. Sadly these kids don't know just how much hard work having a child is. I love my kids more than life itself, but there are times when I wish I could go out to work and earn my own way in life. As soon as my daughter goes to school, I'm going back to work.
Like you said Jez, most of them are chavs. And we all know what chavs are like. XD
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I agree with all of the comments posted on here. I think it's disgusting how the girls get so much benefits from their condition. There are people who work their butts off and they don't get that much money a month. It's disgraceful!
I see what you mean about how the mother can't be to blame because she can't watch over her children 24/7 but people would think she's partly responsible because others would think that she's a bad mother. Some people would blame the school because they think that they don't teach their pupils enough about sex education.
I do think that the girls are responsible for their actions because they're the one who got themselves into the situation and they probably did know about contraception and how to get it. I know about Britain having the highest teenage pregnacy rate in Europe, it goes to show that something needs to be done but it's a question of how to stop the rate going up.
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Well this is a very emotive subject. When it comes to who's to blame, well in my opinion, I think society, the government, their mother and the kids themselves are to blame. They are only children themselves, not yet equipped with the emotional strength and understanding to care for themselves let alone a baby! I don't know what school you went to Jez but I've found sex education on the whole to be absolutely pathetic. We wanted to tour a sexual health play but every school we talked to would only let us target year 10 and 11...bit late then isn't it! I think sex Ed should start in year 7 at the latest and involve emotional aspects of relationships not just the act itself! Nobody has mentioned the fathers yet either! Are they just allowed to get away with not carrying any of the responsibility for their actions?
How the hell do you discipline any young person these days? They are a law unto themselves most of the time. Kids are untouchable and as a consequence are ruled by peer pressure.
I doubt they'll be sitting at home doing nothing! I've had three children, all conceived within a loving, stable marriage and I have to say that it's the hardest thing I've ever done. Those girls are in for one helluva shock when they find out that babies are not all cute and cuddly. When the attention and the novelty wears off and they're stuck at home with a screaming infant, absolutely physically and emotionally exhausted from the pregnancy itself and sleep deprived and with no emotional support from the father (who'll be too busy impregnating some other stupid kid who thinks the only way to keep him is to give it up, yeah right >()or friend (who'll be too busy partying to bother with them) that's when the penny will drop and those girls will realise what the hell they've let themselves in for...then the depression will set in!
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Sex education started when I was in year 5....I'm not too sure if they still continue to teach it at that age but I was like 9...10 at the time? I knew nothing about it before then, and our head teacher used to take us to this big room with a TV in like twice a week or something and we'd be taught all about it and how to prevent such things from happening.
We got the same sort of thing in secondary school too. We were literally taught the subject at least three times a year in PSHE and Science. I got a lot more than that because I was doing Child Development for GCSE as well, and my teachers never failed to get the information out to us.
What makes it funny is...because of that...no one in our year got pregnant while they were there. I believe that theres been very little teen pregnancies at my old school because they shoved so much information into our brains about it, and I think that other schools should do it too.
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My school gave us a fair bit of sex ed. I believe that all teen pregancys are entirely the fault of the people in question....its nothing about *not knowing* .....sex leads to babies.....
One of my closest friends had a kid when she was fourteen, and boy has she got the stretch marks to show it. Its funny because from the outside if i didnt know her through my work, i'd think she was just some townie chav tosser....but shes a lovely person and she loves her kid. Although i do think that she had him because she knew that she wouldnt have to work properly, or get a proper education if she did....so really, shes just skanking off my parents money....and i would say mine but i'm damned if i'm paying tax.
I think a lot of people do just have children as a ploy to get them out of work. Its disgusting....and their kids are gonna grow up on some pikey estate and turn into the next generation of their parents. We should just tell them there going to be on tv, put them in a room and gas them to prevent further breeding. :8o
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Teen pregnancy is a sad fact of our modern world. There was this girl who used to go to my school. She was always really thin, and loved to make fun of me, I think because I'm not and never have been. Well, she just had a baby. It's sad, really. She still graduated from high school, so that's good, but to have to worry about a baby in your senior year? I think that abstinence is the best prevention for everything.
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Sex education started when I was in year 5....I'm not too sure if they still continue to teach it at that age but I was like 9...10 at the time? I knew nothing about it before then, and our head teacher used to take us to this big room with a TV in like twice a week or something and we'd be taught all about it and how to prevent such things from happening.
We got the same sort of thing in secondary school too. We were literally taught the subject at least three times a year in PSHE and Science. I got a lot more than that because I was doing Child Development for GCSE as well, and my teachers never failed to get the information out to us.
What makes it funny is...because of that...no one in our year got pregnant while they were there. I believe that theres been very little teen pregnancies at my old school because they shoved so much information into our brains about it, and I think that other schools should do it too.
Well then Jez, perhaps that's the way forward...better sex education for everyone...with all the facts thrown in for good measure ;)
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Schools shouldn't really hand out condoms, though. That just seems to be encouragement. I just say wait until marriage. That way if you do get pregnant, it's all good.
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Schools shouldn't really hand out condoms, though. That just seems to be encouragement. I just say wait until marriage. That way if you do get pregnant, it's all good.
Not really. That statement assumes marriages are happy, stable and financially able to support a child. Just because two people are married doesn't mean it's "all good" to have a child.
I know 2 girl's who both got pregnant at 17, and had their babies at 18. One of them is still with her boyfriend but the other isn't. And they are both great mothers, and lovely people. Not all teenagers who have kids are slappers and lazy. That's just a stereotype. It's true some people are like that, but not all.
As for who is to blame, well, everything could be improved. I agree there needs to be better, more in-depth sex education at schools, particularly at Catholic schools. I went to a catholic school, being catholic by birth (even though I'm not a practising catholic) and because they had a better reputation/grades than the non-catholic schools round here. The sex ed was crap. I don't think I ever learned anything useful about it, except in biology. RE lessons were the worst. Sex was only good if you were in a marriage and for procreation. Now that's such an old fashioned view. And the more they pushed this view on us the more poeple wanted to rebel against it.
The thing is, teenagers do have sex. And not all of them who do want a kid, and not all of them who do are slappers. I think measures need to go towards preventing pregnancy, rather than preventing sex.
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Speaking from personal experience (under completely different circumstances though - I wasnt a slapper offering, it was taken.), I feel that the under 16s should be forced into an abortion. They don't have a CLUE the hard work thats involved. Its not right. Purely, Sex Education should warn them that if they get pregnant under 16, the law dictates that they must have an abortion. That'll teach them, That way they can have the mental scar of losing a child, not the physical demand of one screaming every day. I'm not saying one situation is better than the other, just that there is no way you can cope with a baby at that age. I couldn't.. my family had to help me... not that my mother and father would have anything to do with me. That situation was taken out of my hands though.
These girls are STUPID.. Well, not the 16 year old, thats her choice.. but 14 and TWELVE?!?! WILLINGLY having sex? NO NO NO NO NO!!! SLUTS!!!
*Calms self down* sorry, strong opinions here.
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You can't force people to have an abortion, it's a total violation of their rights and personal beliefs.
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Wow, lots of strong opinions here. Good to see that people are expressing their opinions about this! I agree with your opinion andone about the abortion. You can't force someone to have an abortion but you can advise someone to have an abortion or think of alternative methods such as give the baby up for adoption.
The sex education lessons in my school were just rubbish! We had a booklet which not only contained information about sex education (which was only a few pages), we had information about life in general which was a bit stupid. The teachers here are always embarassed by talking about sex and all that, don't know why they are, it's pathetic really. The teacher we had was so patronising and she kept doing the same topic every lesson so we didn't really learn much from her.
I'm in my final year of school and there are 2 or 3 girls in my year that are pregnant. The one girl is expecting sometime this month as well!
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You can't force people to have an abortion, it's a total violation of their rights and personal beliefs.
I very much agree. Abortion by force? That's wrong.
At my school, we're taught abstinence. And it's pretty much worked on me. Not saying everyone's the same (especially to look at some of the current students), but I think it could work, if the parents helped a bit. Of course, I go (or went; just graduated) to a Christian school, so much of the abstinence in my class is more of a conviction.
But you can get diseases, not only get pregnant. Like, for every teenage girl who is pregnant, there's another who probably has some disease. The pregnant ones are lucky, even though it's sad that they are at such a young age.
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I think CHILDREN who have sex unprotected should look after a proper baby for a day or so, and REALISE how hard it is to look after a kid, and then maybe they'll take precautions.
You've got to be flippin' stupid to have sex without a condom, KNOWING what it does!
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It's really just the excitement of the moment though isn't it ??? Not thinking because you're so consumed by your emotions.
The sex education classes I've had have been really brilliant :laugh: The teachers were all around their 20's and really great to talk to, you know, like a cousin or sister etc. I think it's a problem of funding for some schools. They just don't see the benefits of sex ed, and believe core curricular lessons stand higher.
Maybe they do, but try telling a pregnant 14 year old that mathematics or ICT will get her through life with a baby, or stop the pregnancy in the first place ::)
Also, you've got to agree that there are certain individuals who ...sleep around, shall we say, and regard precautions in whatever shape or form as "uncool". You know, a boy'll think his girl will see him as scared or having something to hide if he uses a condom or whatever :-\
Really, I don't think enough boys are taught sex ed. I mean, girls get all the talk on menstrual cycles and STD etc etc, but boys get a handful of warning and cautious advice.
I say, more male sex ed teachers :P :D
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I think it's a problem of funding for some schools.
Agreed. I live in a 'working class' area and here schools etc are as some people put it, 'economically disadvantaged' and in my old school, we have had problems of being able to provide good facilities etc so perhaps that could be the reason why sex ed lessons etc aren't up to stratch here.
There is also a lot of peer pressure amongst teens as well I think. Maybe some girls or boys even sleep with someone or their boyfriend/girlfriend because they don't want to feel like they're the only person in the world (as they seem to think) that have not 'done it'. Most of my friends in school have already lost their virginity (most of them are only 15 as well!). It does feel a bit strange because I'm almost 17 and I haven't had sex with anyone. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that but at times it does feel slightly intimidating.
I've had to look after my cousin a few times when he was a baby. It was hard bloody work and I intend not to have kids until I've got a living- you know, enough money and a home of my own.
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I think CHILDREN who have sex unprotected should look after a proper baby for a day or so, and REALISE how hard it is to look after a kid, and then maybe they'll take precautions.
You've got to be flippin' stupid to have sex without a condom, KNOWING what it does!
I agree totally. They shouldn't be active in the first place, but a baby can change so much. And at a young age, well... When I was in 8th grade, one of my friends transferered out of our private school to a public middle school. She came to spend the night at our house, and was telling us how different it was. She said that there were girls there who were already sexually active. That's sad, for a school with 6th-8th grade students.
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It does feel a bit strange because I'm almost 17 and I haven't had sex with anyone. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that but at times it does feel slightly intimidating.
Don't feel intimidated just because you're nearly 17 and you haven't had sex. That means you have sense, and that you want to wait for the right time, instead of it just being a spur of the moment type thing. I'm actually ashamed to not be a virgin and I would give my right arm to "be a virgin" again.
But don't ever feel imtimidated. Just because your friends are doing it, doesn't mean you have to. Theres no law saying "If you're friends are having sex, so should you".
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Exactly. Don't do something just because everyone else is.
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Violation of their rights? I dont think so - Its a violation of the law to have sex underage. You break the law, you get punished. Simple as. You go out on the streets and assault someone, you get thrown in jail - Which constricts their human rights too. I'm sorry, but if you break the law and get pregnant as a result, you should be forced into an abortion. I wish I had been.
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That's not punishment. That's abuse. Physical and emotional abuse. You'd be punishing the unborn child, not to mention any potential grandparents. And what about the father, why don't we go for castration while we're forcing girl's into aboritons? Perhaps we could throw the girl into a nunnery after the abortion for a few qucik hail marys.
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Thanks Jez and Cuthien. I don't find it intimidating because most of my friends have already done it. The reason I feel intimidated because they are just like many of the other idiots around here and they love to be nosy and ask about your business, especially if you've been sleeping around as well. It's not only intimidating but annoying because I hardly ever talk about my business to anyone nor would I ever announce my sexual activities like they do. It's just disgusting and I don't want to know what they get up to in their private lives.
I'm not overly keen on abortion because as andone said, you're punishing the unborn child. There are other ways, like keeping the child and bringing it up or giving the child up for adoption.
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At 12, 14, and 16? NO. I think it's ridiculous that girls are having sex at that young of an age and then getting pregnant at that young of an age. I think the mother's partly to blame no matter what, but the girls are to blame too. I'm wondering WHY those three girls would have sex and then get pregnant at such a young age. It angers and upsets me. :/ Zhangy, I'm 17 and I haven't even had sex yet. I'm going to wait until 18 or older to do that. :)
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Hey guys just read a couple of posts, I lost my v when i was 16 (20 now) didn't regret losing it at that age just to who i lost it too. But i was careful then and i have always been careful since. I don't want kids just now, if ever.
I do know a few girls that have had kids before they turned 18 though and it scares even me. I mean do they not get sex ed in schools anymore?...
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Andone, you're not gonna change my views. Personally I dont feel a child is a child until birth, so up until that point its just a thing. Means nothing. Thats my personal view. And it scars someone enough to have a child at that age. They shouldn't be allowed.
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I'm not trying to change your view. This is a debates board. Not everyone at that age is scarred buy having a child, it would scar someone an awful lot more if you forced them to do something they didn't want too.
edit - and yes i do agree with abortion, but not forcing people into it.
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Exactly andone. If I ever had children and they got pregnant at a young age, I wouldn't force them to have an abortion however I would advise them to either have an abortion or give the child up for adoption. The person who is in the situation should make the decision and shouldn't be influenced by another person's opinion I think, they should make a decision because they feel that it's right for them.
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Andone, you're not gonna change my views. Personally I dont feel a child is a child until birth, so up until that point its just a thing. Means nothing. Thats my personal view. And it scars someone enough to have a child at that age. They shouldn't be allowed.
So you think a child shouldn't be allowed to live because the mother messed up?
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As i've already stated, i dont believe it IS a child until birth. Therefore, you're not losing anything that ever was.
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Crossing over into the abortion topic :-\
I have strong views on this one so I'm gonna keep out of it cos I would probably end up offending someone
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Crossing over into the abortion topic :-\
I have strong views on this one so I'm gonna keep out of it cos I would probably end up offending someone
No no, please share your views...this is a debate board and we're hear to discuss both sides of the story. You have views, whether you offend someone or not, but please, don't hold back just because you might offend someone...we're all allowed to speak on this board, whether some people like it or not.
I think abortion for someone under 16 is a bit extreme, but they do deserve some sort of punishment. That's my view, and nothing can really change it. We all have different views, no matter how extreme they are or not.
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Argh
But I don't want anyone to take anything I say personally (you know who you are). :)
I don't think a law would ever be passed forcing under 16's into an abortion. What would be slightly more realistic would be to let them have the baby but then it would be put up for adoption or into foster care. That way it would be looked after by someone who would be in the right situation to bring up a child.
From my perspective as a Christian, abortion is wrong.That said, I can completely understand why people do it under some circumstances. I strongly believe that a foetus is a human being when it's heart begins to beat, which is 6 weeks gestation. Having had 2 kids myself I cannot understand how someone could abort a child which they have felt moving and growing inside them. Abortions after 12 weeks I think are sick, cruel and should not be allowed. I know one guy who's gf aborted their child at 20 weeks. At that stage with both of mine I could feel them move and had a bond with them. And there's no doubt that a child at that stage of development can feel pain.
As far as teenage pregnancy goes, sex education could be greatly improved. I remember in my year 10 sex ed basically all we got told was how to put a condom on a test tube.Nothing else that I remember, about pregnancy or STD's.
There should also be more emphasis on parents teaching their kids about sex. I know I'm going to tell mykids, cos I dont want either of them to make the same mistakes I made and end up having a kid at 18 or 19. As much as I love them with all my heart and soul I know it wasn't the ideal time to have kids, but in the end what's done is done and the best should be made out of a bad situation.
If an underage girl gives birth, the child should be given to a couple who are unable to have children.
That's the short story of my thoughts and opinions
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If an underage girl gives birth, the child should be given to a couple who are unable to have children.
i think thats a bit harsh. if the girl wants to keep the baby she should be able to.
no one should be forced into doing anything
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If an underage girl gives birth, the child should be given to a couple who are unable to have children.
i think thats a bit harsh. if the girl wants to keep the baby she should be able to.
no one should be forced into doing anything
Well, if she wants to keep it and raise it, then go ahead. But if she does not want the baby, why not give it up to a couple who are unable to have children? That way, the real mother could have a normal life (as normal as possible), the baby would be in a loving home, and a man and woman would have a child whereas they otherwise would not.
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They used to do that years ago...make the girl give the baby up for adoption...I think it's an awful thing to force upon someone. I think prevention is much better than cure. I agree that sex ed should be made compulsory throughout England but a more effective for of education to the one they have now :(
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I wouldn't say 'sex ed' is to blame concerning teenage pregnancy, I would have say its the general attitude people have towards sex. Our society still considers it a taboo subject. This is what makes it damaging and causes youngsters to 'rebel' in a sexual sense...they know what will happen if you have sex but they also want to find out more... This sadly results in girls as young as 12 having a child, which in my opinion is wrong because they are still a child etc but it happens. I've lived in Europe and the entire attitude to sex is so different, which may be why there are less teenage pregnancies. If British society can overcome this urge to drive sex underground and not to discuss it, then surely this would help ease the problem. Also, many of these youngsters live in areas where there is nothing to do bar having sex. I mean, if all you have is TV and school as highlights of entertainment then human instinct takes over. I agree with precautions etc, but sometimes that isn't always possible or the situation prevents it. I have been in a position of worry concerning pregnancy and I acknowledge it as my own fault but as I said sometimes, something takes over and there is a sense of irresponsibility. Regrettable of course. Therefore I don't think it is possible to blame one thing alone for Britain's high teenage pregnancies...it is a combination of factors which contribute to this ever growing problem. If the pill were available for younger teenagers and even the morning after pill, then maybe this will cut it down. To be honest I don't think this would increase the rate of teenage sex, it would mean less teenagers are forced into a position of having an unwanted child. Those teenagers who are considering a child should get one of those robotic ones which gives them a real sense of 'motherhood and fatherhood'. Also, what about those adverts for little girls which advertise baby dolls? I'm sorry but isn't that encouraging young girls on a subconscious level to become mothers and therefore limiting their aims? Maybe many of these young girls feel that they need some form of responsibility and therefore opt to have children at a young age. If we can change this notion then maybe that will improve things...
I feel like I'm going off on a tangent now...but basically in a nut shell - one cannot blame one thing for teenage pregnancy, it is a variety of factors mainly society's reaction to it which causes problems
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Yes I agree that the attitude of British society is also to blame. The morning after pill, which is effective for up to 72 hours by the way, and the Pill are available to under 16's and that's a fact!. You don't have to go to your own GP for it either and you don't have to have an adult present.
I still think that young girls don't realise the emotional and physical stress having a baby can have on them. I think they have a very romantic view of motherhood and that's what should be taught during sex ed, not just the physical aspects of sex.
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The three girls that were originally mentioned in this topic who have had kids under the age of 16 are obviously chavs. I mean, who on earth calls their child "Amani"?
Anyway, to be quite honest, I agree with Elfy. If the girl gives birth under the age of sixteen and doesn't have proper support etc, then the child should go to a couple who can look after it. I am not saying that the girl is immature or anything, just that she posibily won't have a job or security or even space at where she lives to look after it, will she? She may not be in a relationship either.
I know there are many, many women who have brought their children up on their own and I hold so much respect for those women. But they're mature, stable and are not under 16.
I think chav girls see getting pregnant as a way out of boredom or something. I find it shocking that people are doing it at 12. And yeah, every way of stopping getting pregnant is available to young people but do some people bother to take that? No.
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Yes, there are various means which stop pregnancy whether it be condoms or the pill, but sometimes it is the fear of that child to buy condoms or see a doctor etc....for some weird reason people see sex as 'dirty' or 'unconventional'....
This may be one of the reasons why it is difficult to prevent pregnancy...
However, as I said before, sometimes...this may sound really bad..but if there is a passionate scene etc sometimes logic is not present and then mistakes happen..
I think it would be wrong to believe that all teenage pregnancies are 'chavs', some of these people come from families which have issues and there may be underlying reasons why they chose to become mothers and fathers...
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Well, yeah, the girl may be looking for someone to replace her own father's love if they didn't have that. But in some cases, the father of the baby will get out, having what he wanted, and leaving the girl pregnant. That's the saddest part. No sex until marriage is, in my personal opinion, the best way to go.
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Well, yeah, the girl may be looking for someone to replace her own father's love if they didn't have that. But in some cases, the father of the baby will get out, having what he wanted, and leaving the girl pregnant. That's the saddest part. No sex until marriage is, in my personal opinion, the best way to go.
That doesn't mean the man can still leave. Marriage still isn't in my opinion enough assurance to the woman that the man will stay if she gets pregnant. There have been many cases where a married couple have a baby and the man leaves. Sex before or after marriage...it's the same thing. I know sex after marriage and getting pregnant can be messy if the guy leaves, but he can still leave despite whether he's married or not.
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And also not all boys who get their girlfriend pregnant abandon them. I certainly wouldn't that's for sure (Although I don't intend to get in that situation). Only a coward would abandon their responsabilities.
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I was very lucky in that when I got pregnant at 18 my bf (who was 21 at the time) stuck by me. I know a lot of lads that age don't want anything more to do with the pregnancy and I think it's disgusting. It takes 2 to tango and if a girl/woman ends up pregnant, no matter what their age, I think the father should be involved for the sake of the child.
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I very much agree. Children need fathers.
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Then again, it depends on the father and who he is. My friends childs father is a total tosser but he still insists on seeing him. Here is an example of WHY ....
*Were sitting down getting some food. My mates kid is playing with her £20 note and making it into shapes*
kid - here mummy
my friend - whats this?
kid - a joint
my friend - who showed you how to do that?
kid - daddy did but he said not to tell you
....you see?
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I agree. When my mum needed to go into hospital for a major operation and asked my father to look after us, he suggested that she contacted social services and have us put into care. His reason? He had a new girlfriend who wasnt keen on kids and he didn't want to upset her. Who needs a father like that?
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True, fathers ought to be a good role model but sometimes even mothers fail. I just think it is wrong to generalise who we believe to be typical 'teenage parents'. Parents have to take responsibility, whether that be through classes or simply getting advice. But I think it is hard to find any proper solution to this subject as this is a very complex one...
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Yeah, theres never really a right or wrong answer because each case is so individual ...unless its a council estate.... :dry:
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LMAO Shadowfax :laugh:
Fair enough I know some dads are complete idiots.But if it's possible to without any adverse effects on the child, the father should be involved. It takes 2 people to make a child, so idieally those 2 people should be with that child, love it and bring it up as best they can.
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then again its not totally essential, but it is preferable. I know lovely, well rounded and emotionally balanced people raised by single parents, a few of which never knew their fathers at all and they're all turned out fine, although obviously they probably would have like their fathers to be more involved.
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Yeah, it is always good for the dad to be in there.
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No, it is NOT always good for the Dad (or Mum) to be there. It depends entirely on the parent or parents. As I said, if you'd had a dad like mine, you would understand while some children need to be protected from their parents and prevented from having contact with them.
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I would not have a child young. Mainly because I would like to have a steady income coming into my home before I brought a child into the world. I would want to give the best for my kids and for them to have all the chances they can have to become great. ^_^
I dont say.."Ohh teenagers who have kids are sluts" blah blah No way..It isnt that way. My sister is 15 and already in a sexual relationship. (She is a nympho ;)) My mother and Father know about this and she is on the pill. Now if she had a child at 16 I would congratulate her. I would be most happy for her. But myself personally I want to have my life first. Be free and not tied down. I want to see the world become the best I can...and then when I am nearing 30 I shall pop out a few spawn :P
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I don't want a child to because I don't have the money or
finance that would help a child survive this world and I think that
I'm not physically or emotionally ready to have a child now.
I would like to have a child when I'm say..about 24 years old.
About the "teenagers who have kids are tarts" scenario, most
teenagers that I know are already sexually active and most
of them aren't even 16 yet. I think the reason that most
teenagers are becoming sexually active at a young age is
because of an evil disease called peer pressure. Has anyone
heard of this 'cult' called "daisy chaining" or something like that?
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Some dads, no matter how menatally unstable they are, stick around. My cousin ggot pregnant when she was sixteen and her baby is now three months old. The father of the child, is 22, and no matter how badly my family and i think of him, he sticks around and takes care of his child. While we dont like him, we still respect him for being a father to Hailey.
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Some dads, no matter how menatally unstable they are, stick around. My cousin ggot pregnant when she was sixteen and her baby is now three months old. The father of the child, is 22, and no matter how badly my family and i think of him, he sticks around and takes care of his child. While we dont like him, we still respect him for being a father to Hailey.
y do u h8 him?
if he has the balls to stick it out (for his, as u see it mistakes) maB he aint so bad??
but idunno coz i dont kno ! ???
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I have two friends, one had a kid at 15, one had a kid at 16/17 (i forget which).
The one who had it at fifteen is genuinely a really nice person but shes lazy, thick as sh*t and doesnt have a maternal bone in her body and you can see that child at five start to go wrong already. Tenner says hes having his own kid by eleven.
The other one is acutally a really intelligent girl, i met her doing english a level, i dont know how she manages to spend time with her child and do her work, and i think she shows a lot of promise seeing how devoted she is to her child.
Its totally dependent on situation, but most of the time the kids will grow up to meet the other kids on the council estate, and then those kids will spawn others at 14 and live on the same council estate until they all end up bluuuuue
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...and able to do the 12 times table on their fingers..
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Sex education in this area is nowhere near up to scratch. You are educated about the biological side to sex - but nothing whatsoever as to the physical and emotional aspects. It's all well and good saying "If a sperm comes pentrates an egg it will be fertilised", but this does NOTHING whatsoever in terms of preparing you for the peer pressure, process itself and consequences.
The peer pressure for teenagers to be sexually active is immense. As much as I'd like to say i was strong enough to be my own person and resist, I wasn't - and made the mistake of having sex when I wasn't ready for it and caused myself a lot of hurt. However, since then, I've become more mature and have been in a happy, but sexually active relationship. I may only be a teen myself, but I'm sensible enough to take precautions - and would never put myself in a situation that would increase the risk of getting pregnant.
As for teenage mothers...although I have heard many "happy" accounts of teenage mothers - I don't approve of it at all. If you have unprotected sex, there is the morning after pill for 3 days afterwards, and then up to nine weeks after that the abortion pill - and then a further 5weeks for a surgical abortion - and so an accidental pregnancy is no excuse in my eyes. Although some disagree with abortion (personally I am all for it, if I were pregnant I have no doubts in my mind I would go ahead with an abortion), it's the only acceptable route in my opinion. How on earth a girl who is not yet mature, who does not know herself, is financially unstable, emotionally unstable and does not yet understand fully the world in which she lives in expects to raise a child herself and teach it that which she does not even know for herself yet...it's simply ludicrous.
Children at a young age mean reducing the chance of financial success, which therefore means it will be harder to provide for their child - thus restricting the child's chances of success later in life (agreed, there is a minority which does succeed still). It's a huge strain also for the mother - as a teen, girl's are unstable enough - and the addition of the stress of a child, along with post natal depression is ,I'm sure, more likely to push a teenager mother over the age than an older mother.
If you get pregnant, there are plenty of options available. Keeping the child is, in a lot of cases, a selfish act - not wanting to face the guilt or judgement of having an abortion - and instead prefer to bring a child into a world where it will most likely never have the stable background required to allow it to achieve it's full potential in life.
I understand my views may be strongly disagreed with by some, but everyone is entitled to their own opinon.
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My mother had me when she was only seventeen
Therefor my thoughts on the matter are biased.
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i fell pregnant at 18 and had my little girl his year in april it wasnt planned , i was on the pill but some how got caught out . i chose to have the child because i didnt feel i could cope with emotional distress of having an abortion. i do live in a housing association property and do get child tax credits but i work 6 days a week and my partner (her dad) 5 days so we can support ourselves with out benefits while making sure emily can have all she needs. it makes me sick to see teenage mums who sit wasting the benefits on fags and booze while being to lazy to work. i dont agree with young girls falling pregnant and abusing the benefits system but as long as they work to support them selves and ther children then at least it shows theyve takenn responsibilitie for there actions
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My mother had me when she was only seventeen
Therefor my thoughts on the matter are biased.
My Mum was 16 when she had my Brother, and I still think its wrong for Teenagers to have children. Until they're 18 (like you leafi) I don't think people know what they're doing.
When your 18, you know if having a child is right or not, or whether an abortion is right.
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this is very true its just a shame there doesnt seem to be a way to stop it from happening you can tell a tennager that un protected sex equals pregnancy until your blue in the face but they will do it any way. tis such a shame , were losing a whole generatioon of possable professionals to the sudden teenage baby boom.
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Even with protected sex though the church are still going to fight to the death to do away with it, so theres still a struggle to get more information out there without alter lickers running the show.
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I didn't read all of the posts in this thread because I would most likely find something to say to each one.
Instead, I am just going to put in my opinions, based upon my experiences, and leave it at that.
I had my daughter at 16 years old. I don't blame my parents for not raising me properly (which any "professional" could tell you that they didn't), I don't blame the school's for not providing enough sexual education classes, nor do I blame the government for not having stricter laws about such things.
My daughter has not suffered because of the age at which I had her. And I wouldn't say that I have suffered for having her at such a young age, either. I made the best of it and have always done the best that I could for her. She has never been without the basics and she has always had plenty of the extras, all without government help.
Knowing what I know now, I believe that the best course of action to prevent more young teens from being pregnant and spreading STD's is education and prevention. They need to be taught about these things, by the school AND by their parents, and at an earlier age than what they already do it. When you have 12 year old girls ending up pregnant, it's obviously too late to make them take sex ed classes when they're 13 years old. As the majority of youths these days will admit, the more they're told not to do something, the more they'll do it. Parents cannot stop them from having sex if they choose to do so.
My suggestion is to teach the children young, and keep an open relationship with them. When you find out that they are having sex, express to them that you are unhappy about their decision, that you would rather they stop and wait until they're older and say anything else that you feel you most in order to express your general opinion about things. This way they know that you don't think it's OK for them to be doing it. BUT, since you know that they will most likely continue to do it, then equip them with what they need to practice safe sex: condoms and birth control.
Does it condone sex at an early age? Not if you make sure they understand your position on it. But as a parent, it is your job to take care of your child, even if that means doing something you'd rather not do.
Yes, this is what I plan to do with my daughter. She will be 8 years old soon and I plan on having the "facts of live" conversation with her shortly after her birthday. I wish for her to know things so that way she can make informed decisions about sex without being curious about the mystery that surrounds it when parents don't talk to their children. I'd rather know that she is practicing safe sex if I can't stop her from having it altogther.
Also, before anybody points it out, I do plan to express to her the importance of waiting. I'm not going to say "I know you're going to have sex even if I tell you not to, so tell me before you do so that I can make sure you have what you need to be safe." I will stress the benefits of waiting until she's older. I will make it plain and clear that is my wish for her. But I also don't want to give her the impression that I will no longer love her if she disobeys me.
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ahhh, so many very valid points, post's and ide'as here.
has anyone but me noticed that the male input in this topic seems to be limited to a few lines and half an opinion? ::)
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My mother had me when she was only seventeen
Therefor my thoughts on the matter are biased.
My Mum was 16 when she had my Brother, and I still think its wrong for Teenagers to have children. Until they're 18 (like you leafi) I don't think people know what they're doing.
When your 18, you know if having a child is right or not, or whether an abortion is right.
I agree, Icy. By the time your eighteen you know whether your in the right situation mentally, phyically and money-wise to cope with it. I think if you want to have a child at eighteen then that's up to you, it's your decision and your right. Although, you have to think about the aftermath, where you'll live, where you'll work how the baby will be looked after and such.
But as I say, it's up to you, not the goverment or your parent's to decide.
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ahhh, so many very valid points, post's and ide'as here.
has anyone but me noticed that the male input in this topic seems to be limited to a few lines and half an opinion? ::)
I think that it would be interesting to see the input of more males on this topic.
My mother had me when she was only seventeen
Therefor my thoughts on the matter are biased.
My Mum was 16 when she had my Brother, and I still think its wrong for Teenagers to have children. Until they're 18 (like you leafi) I don't think people know what they're doing.
When your 18, you know if having a child is right or not, or whether an abortion is right.
I agree, Icy. By the time your eighteen you know whether your in the right situation mentally, phyically and money-wise to cope with it. I think if you want to have a child at eighteen then that's up to you, it's your decision and your right. Although, you have to think about the aftermath, where you'll live, where you'll work how the baby will be looked after and such.
But as I say, it's up to you, not the goverment or your parent's to decide.
No, it shouldn't be up to the government to decide or your parents to decide. But if you're so young that your parents will end up caring for the child, as well as supporting it, then they should have at least a small say so in things, but it will ultimately be your decision.
As for the age factor, I do believe that is debatable. There are a lot of 18 year olds that are no where near mature enough to care for a child yet there are 16 year olds that are more than mature enough. I believe it all depends upon the person.
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Yeah, that's very true, a lot of people at eighteen, have no idea about maturity, or are mature themselves.
I would never get pregnant at a young age, personally I don't think I could cope, even at eighteen, I don't have the financial and am not ready yet to deal with such responsibilities.
I think your right, I think that if you get pregnant before the age of sixteen then your parents should have a say in it but it is ultimately your choice.
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I'm 17 and pregnant right now. Getting pregnant was my own choice and i am very happy. Granted, we dont have a lot of money, but we have lots of love and supportive families. I dont expect to sponge off the government, and the baby comes first.
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No offense but I think thats way too young. Friends of mine who have had kids young do regret it (not having a child, having a child young). It kills your opportunities for education, which is therefore detremental to the future of your kid. You're still a child yourself and you're missing out on your youth by having a child at this age. With no knowledge of the world, you have nothing to teach your child.
However, if I was pregnant right now, I would probably keep the child, just because I wouldnt be able to have an abortion. Im okay with people having abortions, if they can handle it, but I think it might cause problems for me. The easy solution would be to just not get pregnant. Thats why its all about the pill, and period regulation. w00t!
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A lot of girls who were in the same year as me in school have had kids since leaving school. Some of them I'm not surprised about because they were already sexually active in school and some of them I was surprised about, my best mate is about 3 or 4 months pregnant now and she's gonna be 17 in a week or so.
I don't know why I'm shocked about teenagers in my area getting pregnant at a young age because the teenage pregnancy rate here in South Wales is really high. I'm almost 18 and I definitely not having a baby anytime soon cos I can't afford it. My parents also wouldn't be very happy if I did have a baby at my age, especially if they found out about me having 2 pregnancy scares in the past 6 months lol.
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I have nothing against 16, 17, 18, 19 year olds having children (I do agree below 16 is just ludicrous for physical, emotion, political and social reasons), but I personally think it's very foolish.
What would you say is one of the most important aspects of parenting? Physical care (shelter, food, etc.)? Social and emotional care (imparting knowledge, loving, teaching)? Financial care? That is how parenting is often broken down, how can a 16 year old impart their years of knowledge onto a child? How can a 16 year old provide for a child when they have hardly any money?
Of course, they can rely on relatives to provide the money and know-how, but then who is the real parent? Surely one of the considerations of having a baby is to think, "Can I support this child myself?".
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I have nothing against 16, 17, 18, 19 year olds having children (I do agree below 16 is just ludicrous for physical, emotion, political and social reasons), but I personally think it's very foolish.
What would you say is one of the most important aspects of parenting? Physical care (shelter, food, etc.)? Social and emotional care (imparting knowledge, loving, teaching)? Financial care? That is how parenting is often broken down, how can a 16 year old impart their years of knowledge onto a child? How can a 16 year old provide for a child when they have hardly any money?
Of course, they can rely on relatives to provide the money and know-how, but then who is the real parent? Surely one of the considerations of having a baby is to think, "Can I support this child myself?".
I totally agree. If you had a child at 16 or younger and you let your parents care for the child, that child is probably going to think that you're not his mum or dad, the child will think that his grandparents are actually his mam and dad.
And as for the most important aspect of parenting? All aspects are important but I think physical and financial care are most important.
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And as for the most important aspect of parenting? All aspects are important but I think physical and financial care are most important.
So loving a child, teaching it to read and write, educating it on the ways os society aren't as important?
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Yeah of course they are Mith, however financial aspects matter very greatly, the simple fact is you need money to be able to provide food and shelter (unless you plan on sponging off the state forever), we can't survive on just love. Personally I think all aspects are the of the same importance.
With teenage pregnancy it all depends of the maturity of the parents but I have to say having a child under 16 in my opinion is just crazy! Sometimes I think I'd like a baby now and at 17 feel mature enough to have one but financially I'm not ready and also I want to go to uni but I would like to be a young mum. What I disagree most with are young girls of 12 and 13 having casual sex, getting pregnant and relying on state help..surely they can't be good role-models.
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Im convinced at 18, with a baby, my life would be ruined. You cant give someone a life until you've lived yours.
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And as for the most important aspect of parenting? All aspects are important but I think physical and financial care are most important.
So loving a child, teaching it to read and write, educating it on the ways os society aren't as important?
You trying to put words into my mouth or something? Thankyou Isiong for that, all those aspects are important.
Some people would think that the financial aspect of bringing up a child is most important because you need to
be able to provide a child food and shletering. And of course loving a child is important, else that kid would be
really messed up.
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I can't be troubled to read through 6 pages of posts.. ::)
But I did want to comment.. My parents used to be directors and house parents to pregnant teenage girls.. Then as the years progressed and as the need became different, the focus was more on girls at risk (of becoming pregnant or getting into real trouble with the law).. They viewed it as a ministry, a calling from God to fulfill a need that no one else was willing to fill.. The young women often put their child up for adoption.. Basically the purpose of the ministry was to prevent abortions.. So my parents were great at it and for a long time they loved it, but as the focus shifted so did the type of girl that came to live with us... they went from polite young women who messed up by getting pregnant to girls (literally girls, we had some as young as 11!) who were at risk.. A lot of them had been abused (sexually, verbally, or physically) at some point in their lives and they were very angry and became very hard to handle.. Eventually, the need had shifted so much and the toll it was taking on us and our family became too much.. We weren't making enough of a difference to continue on in that capacity.. Now my dad travels to churches (again) raising support and my mom counsels people.. My parents are great at what they do, but I'm not sure either feel fulfilled anymore.. But, that's totally beside the point.. I digress..
I just wanted to say that I think that getting pregnant at a young age because you just weren't careful enough is a big mistake.. Or maybe because you were disillusioned into thinking that it would be fun, it's a mistake.. However, it's a completely different story if a teenager gets pregnant because of rape.. It's a mistake to choose abortion, but it's not always the right time to become a parent.. Then there's option of adoption..
But we really don't want to get on the topic of whether or not it's okay to be sexually active as a teenager.. That's a totally different topic with very different viewpoints..