The Age of the Ring (Lord of the Rings) Forum
Tolkien only Section => The languages, weapons, jewellery, & clothing of Middle-Earth => Topic started by: Taurendil on February 23, 2006, 11:27:37 PM
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In one of his letters Tolkien wrote that he wanted to create a mythology that would be based upon English (or Old English). It seems, however, that the languages he created aren't very 'English'. Quenya is composed under the influence of Finnish and Sindarin as far as I know under the influence of Latin.
I know only two Elvish words which are of English origin: Mordor and Earendel.
Mordor means 'murder' in Old English
Earendel is taken from Old English text 'Christ':
Eala Earendel engla beorhtast
Ofer middangeard monn-m sended.
(Rough translation: Hail Earendel, brightiest of the angels,
Sent to people of middle earth.)
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Maybe what Tolkien meant with languages based upon Eglish that English is the language to be used to translate the Middle Earth tongues, thus you need the english sentence to be translated into Quenya.
I have been busy lately with translating the Quenya grammar to Dutch, and I've noticed that sometimes you would get a different translation if you dirrectly take Dutch=>Quenya instead of Dutch=>English=>Quenya...
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Maybe you're right. The stories are, however, written in rather modern style, not in Old English, aren't they? ???
Tolkien complained about lacking of English-based mythology of England. He wrote:
'....I was from early days grieved by the poverty of my own beloved country: it had no stories of its own (bound up with its tongue and soil), not of the quality that I sought, and found (as an ingredient) in legends of other lands. There was Greec, and Celtic, and Romance, Germaic, Scandinavian, and Finnish (which greatly affected me); but nothing English, save impoverished chap-book stuff. Of course there was and is all Arthurian world, but powerful as it is, it is imperfectly naturalized, associated with the soil of Britain but not with English .... .'
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'....I was from early days grieved by the poverty of my own beloved country: it had no stories of its own (bound up with its tongue and soil), not of the quality that I sought, and found (as an ingredient) in legends of other lands. There was Greec, and Celtic, and Romance, Germaic, Scandinavian, and Finnish (which greatly affected me); but nothing English, save impoverished chap-book stuff. Of course there was and is all Arthurian world, but powerful as it is, it is imperfectly naturalized, associated with the soil of Britain but not with English .... .'
I don't think this is about Quenya or any other language of Middle Earth, but about the reason he wrote about Middle Earth.
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That's the main meaning of the quotation. I thought English-based mythology would stretch to the Elven languages too. I mean they could've been more English-like.
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I think he wrote an English-based mythologie, but that he didn't actaully meant Quenya being an English based language
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Sindarin's creation was influenced by Welsh.
Being a scholar of Anglo-Saxon he would obviously be very interested in that language. There are many examples of where the Elvish word comes from a Germanic root (words often forgot in English). I believe the Quenya for lord, "heru" is an example of this.
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Despite the philological nature of this subject I do hope you all realise that even tho "he wanted" to create an alternative mythology for the British Isles that the stories as such even from its basic roots stood no chance of staying British at all.
Whether that means he failed or not the fact is that the world of Arda does not belong to the British Isles alone but pretty much the whole world we live in.